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Episode 154: Beware: falling house
19th September, 2025 • Ali Spagnola, Evan Heling and Katelyn Heling face questions about criminal capers, rapid records and perplexing percentages.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Where can you be employed as a 'model citizen'? The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral. Welcome to the show. And it's time for the next part of our cryptic crossword challenge. The clue for 27 across is "next answer left on the side," seven letters. And if you can't work out the answer to that, the next 40 minutes might be a tough listen. Luckily, our returning players are as clued up as ever. First of all... joining us, and in the same room as usual, Evan and Katelyn, welcome back to the show.
Evan:
Thanks for having us. Yay.
Katelyn:
Hello.
Tom:
I just realised I did a British-style cryptic crossword clue to a call full of Americans there, and I do apologise for that.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
It went straight over my head.
Katelyn:
I was just gonna—
Evan:
I'm gonna pretend, yeah.
Katelyn:
I was just gonna smile.
Evan:
Yeah.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
How are you two doing? How is your world? What are you doing at the moment?
Evan:
We're doing great. We are having a lot of fun with our second channel videos recently.
Tom:
Ooh, okay.
Katelyn:
Yeah, yeah.
Evan:
It's just lower pressure. It's really fun.
Tom:
Right? It's lovely.
Evan:
(blurts laugh)
Katelyn:
Yeah, we tried... just seeing how thick we could make resin. For science.
Evan:
For science reasons.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Katelyn:
And just...
Tom:
Well ,before it starts crushing under its own weight.
Evan:
Well, we—
Katelyn:
Sort of. Until it stops being resin.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I know what you mean, that it's nicer to have something that does not have all eyes on the big project that must work.
Evan:
Yeah, yeah.
Katelyn:
Mhm, yeah. Very chill.
Evan:
It almost like is back to when we first started YouTube.
Ali:
Wow, you guys make projects that work?
SFX:
(Tom and Evan laugh)
Katelyn:
(laughs sarcastically) Occasionally.
Tom:
Which does bring me over to the other side of, again, this maker special. Ali Spagnola, welcome back to the show.
Ali:
Hi, thanks. Thrilled to be here.
Tom:
What is the success rate on your projects? 'Cause you do seem to have this ethos of "Well, we'll see if this works". Not, "It must work".
Ali:
I know. It is higher than it should be. I'll say that.#5 Because everything I go into, I'm like, "Oh, I've never done this before, and I'll never do it again." But there's also the success rate of the video. And as long as it's a good story, I call that a success.
Tom:
Yes, there is just such a difference between an idea that you've put (chuckles) years and years of work sometimes, and you go, ah, no one cares. And like, oh, well this didn't work, but it's fun.
Evan:
Yeah.
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Evan:
Because in the end, what we're making are videos. We're not— The end result is the video, not the thing we're making in the video.
Tom:
Sorry, that just got too meta for me. I was trying to come up with something clever there. I was like, I—
SFX:
(Katelyn and Evan laugh)
Tom:
That's just sage advice for people starting out making videos for YouTube.
Ali:
You're making a documentary about the art, not necessarily the art.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Evan:
Yes.
Katelyn:
Mhm.
Tom:
Well, good luck to all three of you on the show today. It is time to sharpen your pencils as well as your wits as we look down and move across to question one. Thank you to Jeroen for sending this question in. The Museum Plagiarius in Solingen, Germany showcases product design. In all, it has around 350 different exhibits. How many objects is that? I'll say that again. The Museum Plagiarius in Solingen, Germany showcases product design. In all, it has around 350 different exhibits. How many objects is that?
Evan:
This is Lateral, so I know that there's some way we'll be able to figure this out.
Ali:
(wheezes)
Tom:
Mhm.
Ali:
This is Lateral, so it's not 350.
Evan:
It's not 350.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's not 350.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Katelyn:
No, I'm trying to figure out the significance of... how the... exhibits are broken up into 350 exhibits. What counts as an exhibit?
Evan:
And what counts as a product?
Katelyn:
You mean a single item, versus as a product line, one product?
Evan:
Yeah.
Tom:
I know that our question team had so much trouble phrasing this question. For exactly that reason.
Evan:
(laughs)
Katelyn:
Okay. So yeah, so like, that makes me think the word 'object' does not equal product.
Evan:
Yes.
Katelyn:
The word 'object' was chosen very specifically.
Evan:
So we need to find how many objects...
Katelyn:
Are in a product museum. With 350 exhibits.
Evan:
A human is an object. A glass pane is an object. A trash can is an object.
Katelyn:
(snickers) Oh, that's true.
SFX:
(Tom and Evan laugh)
Evan:
So there are a lot of objects.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ali:
First of all, I'm a feminist, and I am not an object.
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Tom:
There's a lot of potential um-actuallys on this. Like, it has around 350 different exhibits. We're just taking the number as 350 and saying, how many objects would make up those exhibits?
Ali:
If it's about the design, maybe there aren't any objects at all. It's just the blueprints and the marketing or... So the answer would be zero. Which is not the answer, 'cause he's not even reacting. Okay, moving on.
Evan:
What if objects count as letters and numbers? So maybe you add up the number of letters and numbers there are, and that's how many objects make up... Or some— Maybe there's something like some path down in that direction.
Katelyn:
Huh.
Ali:
Yeah. Is the 350 a red herring... and we need to look at the rest of the information? It has nothing to do with the 350?
Evan:
I think that you're on the right track. Because he said around 350. So it makes me think that 350 has nothing to do with how many objects there are.
Katelyn:
Yeah, it's just kinda—
Ali:
The information is in the rest of the data.
Tom:
There's certainly a connection. You can actually find the answer to this with a simple calculation.
Evan:
A simple calculation?
Katelyn:
We're doing math?
Ali:
Oh, oh. So is it... one exhibit is the design, and one exhibit is the thing? And so then we would just divide 350 by 2, which I will not do on camera because... it would take me too long.
Evan:
Exhibits, exhibits... to objects.
Katelyn:
Yeah, what would make up...
Evan:
An exhibit?
Katelyn:
A single exhibit? 'Cause... Yeah, I feel like you are onto something, trying to figure out... what would be displayed and how many objects would that be? And if they did have, for example, 350, it seems like the 350 isn't relevant in terms of needing to be exact. But it is relevant in terms of helping us figure out the math.
Evan:
The equation.
Tom:
Yes. That's right.
Ali:
Yeah.
Evan:
Okay, okay, okay, yeah.
Katelyn:
Okay.
Evan:
Alright. I'm on board with that. That makes sense.
Katelyn:
Yeah, so like... if we know there's 350 exhibits...
Ali:
Seven. Because we're dividing by 50. 350 feels really easy to divide by 50, and so the answer's seven, but I don't know why.
Evan:
Maybe there's 700 objects or something.
Tom:
Good news, Evan. You got the correct number and calculation. It is 700. 'Cause there are two objects in each exhibit. That's correct.
Evan:
Okay. Okay, yeah, I was thinking, so... In each obj— in each exhibit, there's... the product itself, and then the plaque describing it.
Tom:
Mm.
Evan:
Is what I was thinking.
Katelyn:
(gasps)
Tom:
No. This museum highlights a problem that product designers face.
Katelyn:
A problem that product designers face.
Evan:
Ooh, evolution.
Katelyn:
Oh. Or like ...dupes.
Tom:
Katelyn, keep going.
Katelyn:
Knockoffs. So there's the real and then the knockoff.
Tom:
Yes.
Evan:
Museum of Knockoffs.
Tom:
It absolutely is. This is the Museum Plagiarius. And my next clue was gonna be repeating the name to you. You clued in on all the bits of that. The numbers, the wording, and 'Plagiarius'.
Evan:
(laughs)
Tom:
It is a museum of plagiarism, of copycats.
Evan:
Ohh!
Ali:
Then, 700.
Katelyn:
That's great.
Evan:
That's great.
Tom:
So yes, the museum consists of two copies of the same products: a genuine original placed beside a cheap knockoff. This is the industrial designer Rido Busse, who once saw some weighing scales being sold in Hong Kong that were a direct rip of one of his designs. And even though he successfully sued that company, there were more and more copycats. So when he realised that German law wouldn't protect him, he gives out annual awards, the Plagiarius. And those that receive the awards also have a copy in his museum.
Ali:
I need to donate my velvet toilet so you guys can put your... (chuckles) toilet seat that I copied.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Ali:
That'll be perfect.
Katelyn:
See, you took it farther.
Evan:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Much farther.
Katelyn:
That was a yes-and.
Ali:
Museum Plagi-too-far-us.
SFX:
(Katelyn and Evan laugh)
Tom:
Katelyn, it is your question.
Katelyn:
So this question has been sent in by Julian. Two groups of 50 random people were shown a video of a gymnast overshooting the crash mat, a skier tumbling in the snow, and similar accidents. The average response of each group was very different. How? Two groups of 50 random people were shown a video of a gymnast overshooting the crash mat, a skier tumbling in the snow, and similar accidents. The average response of each group was very different. How?
Evan:
I, for some reason, read a lot of studies or read up or hear about a lot of studies. And oftentimes, when there's two groups, and they're shown something, each group is primed with a different experience beforehand. So group one might have just seen other funny videos, and another group might have seen hospital footage. And then the emotional response is twisted by what they just saw within the context of that. That's my guess.
Tom:
There are loads and loads of studies like that, and a lot of them did not survive the replication crisis, which was a few years back.
Evan:
Ooh.
Tom:
When a load of psychology results were... I don't wanna say the originals were wrong, but people took those reports that showed you could prime people to have emotional— big differences, and just try to do the experiment again with a different group, and didn't find the same results. So there's definitely some effect there, but it's not as strong as it was.
Evan:
Interesting. I didn't know that those old studies were kind of disqualified. (laughs)
Tom:
If it's a psychology result before about 2010, where it's like, "Doing this makes people 50% more likely to..." (grumbles) Maybe, maybe, maybe not.
Evan:
Mm, okay. Healthy grains of salt.
Tom:
(laughs)
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Tom:
My first thought was an American show called... Is it Wide World of Sports? Am I naming that right? ABC's Wide World of Sports or something like that?
Evan:
We are not good people to answer that. We only watch YouTube.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Tom:
It famously had a title sequence that included both massive sporting successes and massive... And accidents. It's not like they showed people being seriously hurt, but it would be like the ecstasy of victory as someone give—- and the agony of defeat. Shot of a skier missing the ski jump and tumbling, or something like, and it's like, was this... the test for that? Was this them going to audiences, and going, "Which of these title sequences of people getting hurt is most likely to get you to watch this show?"
Evan:
Hmm. Hmm.
Katelyn:
So, I... I don't have information about how these clips were used after.
Tom:
Ah! Okay.
Katelyn:
So how they were used after is not relevant.
Tom:
That's a shame. I was like, this is a really good pop culture reference. And no, it's not a lateral question answer, now I think about it.
Ali:
My inkling is to... is to say that the groups are different people. That's, you know, some are skiers, and they understand the pain that they're seeing. But it's random, so... Something's been done to the groups to make them respond, because it's— they weren't different to begin with. So it's something, a part of the experiment.
Evan:
It could be the room that they're in, it could be...
Ali:
Oh, the music. Music has such a huge effect on the visuals. So... the music was different for one group versus the other.
Tom:
In one case, it's really sad and dramatic. Look at these, these terrible fa— The— They were at the peak of their career. And that— and the other time it's just "Entrance of the Gladiators". It's just the circus music. (hums tune)
Ali:
(giggles)
Katelyn:
So you guys are heading down the right track. Now, I... I'll just say that. I'll leave it there for now.
Ali:
Bone crunching. That's always the worst. They added— adding in that foley, that sounds like...
Tom:
Oh.
Evan:
Oh yeah.
Ali:
Stuff, yeah.
Evan:
Can you read it one more time?
Katelyn:
Okay. Two groups of 50 random people were shown a video of a gymnast overshooting a crash mat, a skier tumbling in the snow, and similar accidents. The average response of each group was very different. How?
Tom:
The average response. One group were sociopaths. No, they're random! They're random.
Ali:
They're random.
Katelyn:
Yeah, they're random people.
Ali:
One had a track of someone saying, "You're inadequate" while they watched.
SFX:
(others chortling)
Evan:
Was it the same visuals?
Katelyn:
The exact same visuals. They were not recut or reordered in any different way.
Evan:
So the same visuals.
Katelyn:
Same visuals.
Ali:
Were they cold? I know they make the room cold at a comedy club or a live taping to make people respond more.
Tom:
Wow.
Ali:
Was one room really cold, and one not?
Katelyn:
No. It did not have to do with the room itself in any way.
Tom:
We were on the right track with music or audio, though. You said that.
Katelyn:
Yes.
Evan:
The response was very different. Laugh track.
Tom:
(cackles softly)
Katelyn:
Evan got it.
Evan:
Ohh!
Tom:
Yes!
Evan:
Everyone makes fun of Friends for using the laugh track, and the edits where the laugh is removed is very strange. But yeah, it does have an effect on humans.
Tom:
Yeah.
Katelyn:
Yep. The same compilation of pratfalls was shown to two groups of 50 people. For the first group, nothing was added to the soundtrack, and only about four people said that they laughed. On the second group, they added a sitcom style laugh track. And 28 out of the 50 people found the video very funny.
Evan:
Ha!
Katelyn:
So we need to add more laugh tracks to our videos.
Evan:
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ali:
The direction for Lateral. You gotta add in sound effects.
Tom:
I mean, we did a live show. And it went really well. But also we very deliberately had three comedians on stage for that, so...
Katelyn:
Haha, yeah.
Ali:
And a really cold stage.
Tom:
I did not have to do the hard work there.
Katelyn:
(laughs)
Tom:
And if you'd like a ticket to the next Lateral live show, you can go to lateralcast.com and book your tickets now!
Evan:
(applauds) Always be pluggin'.
Tom:
(laughs) Our next question is from Patrick. Thank you very much. In 1998, the Canadian National Railway intentionally derailed a train and drove it down a street in Montreal. It was removed after a few days. Why? I'll give you that one more time. In 1998, the Canadian National Railway intentionally derailed a train and drove it down a street in Montreal. It was removed after a few days. Why? And I will add, I have no idea how I'd never heard of this before. This is so much down my alley. I can't believe I've never heard of it.
Evan:
It must be for some fair or festival. 'Cause it was there for a few days. And it must have been some sort of historic train or some train of particular importance for some reason.
Katelyn:
Another thought I had was like, was a movie being filmed, or a TV show being filmed?
Evan:
Ooh.
Katelyn:
And they needed the train as a prop?
Evan:
That could very well be the case too.
Ali:
That feels like a very Tom Scott thing.
Tom:
Wait, hold on. Talking about that, or actually somehow getting a train to be a prop?
Katelyn:
It's both.
Ali:
Both.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I genuinely tried not to do too much about trains when I was doing weekly videos. Because there are so many train stories, and then you just... you just become known as the train guy. There's a lot of train guys out there.
Evan:
(guffaws)
Ali:
Thomas the Train Guy. Come on. It's right there for you.
Tom:
Ohh! Aw damn!
Evan:
Just start a brand new channel. Just like, Tom Loves Trains.
Katelyn:
Tom's Trains.
Evan:
Tom's Trains. And just lean into it.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn chuckle)
Katelyn:
Okay, well we didn't get too much reaction from those guesses, so... I don't think they were super close.
Tom:
No, unfortunately not the right paths to be going down.
Ali:
Yeah, it's gonna be unique.
Katelyn:
Would there be a safety reason? Like, you know, maybe the train was already... on those tracks. But it needed to be derailed. And the only place to take it was the street, because there's some emergency repair that needed to be done on the tracks or something like that?
Ali:
I still feel like they're showing it off. Like, come look at our...
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Ali:
In the interior of our train, and for... this display.
Tom:
They drove it down the street.
Katelyn:
So if it was a safety reason or something, it could just be that the street... You know, like planes will try to crash land on streets sometimes, just because it's a straight open pathway. So it could have been derailed to a street, just 'cause it was the only option. If there was some sort of emergency situation. And the reason it took three days is 'cause that could just be how long it took to...
Evan:
Resolve the situation.
Katelyn:
Resolve the issue.
Ali:
Oh. You can't drive a train down the street when it's derailed. It's on something. Something else is driving it.
Evan:
Well, they probably put it on some pulley system, some different wheeled contraption to... 'Cause they wouldn't roll the metal rollers on the...
Tom:
They actually... did roll the metal rollers on the street.
Evan:
Whoa!
Tom:
About 1,000 feet, gouging deep tracks as it went.
Evan:
Wow!
Katelyn:
Okay, that makes me think it was some sort of emergency. It wasn't... There wasn't time to plan.
Evan:
'Cause that probably damages the wheels too.
Tom:
It does.
Evan:
You'll probably have to replace all of those wheels.
Tom:
Yep.
Katelyn:
Okay.
Evan:
Because those wheels need to be smooth.
Ali:
What's the train about to hit... that we had to derail it frantically like that down the street?
Tom:
Didn't say that was frantic.
Ali:
Oh, intentionally.
Tom:
Mhm. It was intentionally derailed, but...
Evan:
So that's expensive. That's very expensive to repair the road, to close that road for multiple days, inconveniencing the town to...
Katelyn:
To repair the train.
Evan:
Now who knows if they repaired the train. Maybe that train was being decommissioned or something.
Katelyn:
True.
Evan:
But that would normally be decommissioned in the railyard.
Ali:
Bridge collapse?
Tom:
Evan, you said inconveniencing the town. Actually, the townspeople requested this.
Evan:
Ooh.
Katelyn:
Okay, that...
Ali:
Are the grooves helping something?
Evan:
I don't think so. 'Cause there's easier ways to make grooves than sacrificing a train.
Ali:
Just a really good train.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom:
The type of train is also important. And Katelyn, earlier, you said emergency.
Katelyn:
Mhm.
Tom:
That is still true. Even though it wasn't frantic, you got that right.
Katelyn:
Oh, I wonder if there's some... Was there some sort of natural disaster, and the train was... It had supplies or something.
Tom:
Now we're getting close, yes. In Montreal.
Katelyn:
Yeah, so there would've been— there could be a snow storm or an ice storm.
Tom:
Yep. Absolutely right.
Katelyn:
Or something where... either the townspeople couldn't get to the train, with it being on the tracks, or the track couldn't continue on the tracks, because of... whatever weather event was going on.
Evan:
Or the trains provided some sort of utility for the town. Maybe the train was—
Ali:
Shelter.
Evan:
For shelter yeah, and it— It was derailed onto the street. And everyone got in there, to shelter from some disaster. Or it could be like a snow break or a fire break or something like that.
Katelyn:
(gasps) An avalanche break. Well you said snow break.
Evan:
Yeah.
Tom:
You are... so close. You're right that it's an ice storm. You're right that this part of Montreal is having... big problems with this ice. But the train is doing a job.
Evan:
Could it be a snowplow train? 'Cause I know in northern countries, there's amazing videos of these massive trains with this giant steel (krrrzh) And there's like— pushes all the snow off of the rail to allow trains behind it to go through. So it could be a snowplow train.
Tom:
No, it's—
Ali:
Staying in the town was— sounds like it's important.
Tom:
Oh, absolutely.
Ali:
Water. Is it carrying water?
Tom:
No, but, mm. You...
Katelyn:
Is it carrying fuel? And it was like fuel to resupply the town?
Evan:
Or it could be like rock. So it's just really heavy.
Ali:
Oil, yeah, something.
Evan:
So like it is more sturdy.
Tom:
It was a diesel train. Not an electric train.
Ali:
So people were siphoning fuel from it to heat the town?
Tom:
(exhales sharply) Nnngh!
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
So close.
Ali:
Oh.
Katelyn:
We're so close.
Ali:
The train's on, and it's heating and melting things around it and...
Tom:
Well, yes, the train is on. What else might it be able to do? Because a diesel train—
Evan:
Provide energy.
Tom:
Keep going, Evan.
Evan:
Okay, so the town was... There's a blizzard. And the town lost power. The train derailed intentionally. And then they— the town hooked up to the train's power source to give the town energy during this emergency?
Tom:
Yes. A diesel train like this one is basically just a giant generator that runs off diesel. So this is 1998. The Montreal suburb of Boucherville experienced an ice storm, knocked out the electrical grid. Diesel electric locomotives are essentially a large, powerful electric generator that runs off diesel fuel, so... Canadian National drove a suitable loco to the nearest train station. A crane took it off the track, and then they rolled it down the street and hooked it up to the nearby municipal buildings with cables. And it provided 375 kilowatts of power from its diesel generator until they could get the grid back.
Evan:
Wow!
Katelyn:
Dang, that's impressive.
Evan:
That shows community coming together, you know? That's a really positive story. I like that, you know? 'Cause I'm sure it was a lot of cleanup and...
Tom:
Yes. (laughs)
Evan:
Pain and hassle afterwards.
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Evan:
My gosh. Because that's a lot of repair.
Tom:
It's an enormous amount of repair, an enormous amount of everything. But it kept the population going for the few days they needed it. Ali, it is over to you for the next question.
Ali:
Alright. This question has been sent in by David Lever. In the 1970s, Sam invited the whole family to his place. While looking at a falling house, everyone was rather disappointed. However, after 20 minutes, the family members suddenly became happy. Why? And again. In the 1970s, Sam invited the whole family to his place. While looking at a falling house, everyone was rather disappointed. However, after 20 minutes, the family members suddenly became happy. Why?
Evan:
When looking at a fallen house?
Tom:
No, falling, F-A-L-L-I-N-G?
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Ali:
(nods silently)
Tom:
Wow, okay.
Katelyn:
My first instinct is that they're watching an HGTV show. And they're seeing... a house that's falling down and falling apart. And after 20 minutes, they're all happy, because everything's been repaired and remodeled.
Ali:
I mean, you're, clo— You're on the right track.
Katelyn:
Okay, they're—
Evan:
They're a HGTV house flipper?
Katelyn:
Well...
Evan:
(laughs heartily)
Tom:
I was thinking that they were coming to see the demolition of something. Like there's a house that's being torn up or something like that.
Evan:
What about Wizard of Oz? Was that around that time?
Ali:
Oh, my. You are on the right track.
Tom:
Okay.
Evan:
Okay, so, so... They were watching a falling house. 'Cause in Wizard of Oz, the house gets picked up, and it falls. And then 20 minutes later, I guess... is the happy ending of the movie?
Katelyn:
No, 'cause it's much longer than 20 minutes.
Evan:
Longer than that. Maybe, oh...
Katelyn:
But is there another movie or another something that they could be watching? With an iconic falling house?
Evan:
Maybe the house that they were at is one of the actors that was in the movie. And... they were initially disappointed that the person wasn't in the film, but then the person was in the film later.
Katelyn:
Like 20 minutes after the house falling.
Evan:
20 minutes after the house fall.
Tom:
Wait, is this definitely Wizard of Oz? Have we found that? Has Evan found that? Okay.
Ali:
You have nailed it. Yes, falling house is iconic. And you've got it right away.
Evan:
Okay, I was thinking it's about that timeframe.
Katelyn:
Okay, so it is Wizard of Oz.
Tom:
So, Sam has invited the whole family over to watch The Wizard of Oz.
Katelyn:
So who is Sam?
SFX:
(Tom and Katelyn laugh)
Katelyn:
Is Sam an actor? Is Sam a director? Is Sam a producer?
Evan:
My guess would be that he's involved in the movie somehow. And you said that they were— The family was initially disappointed, right?
Ali:
Correct. And then why, after 20 minutes, would they then suddenly be happy about it?
Tom:
Oh!
Ali:
Tom's got it.
Tom:
Yes, I have.
Ali:
(chuckles)
Tom:
What happens 20 minutes into The Wizard of Oz? They're watching the movie, and 20 minutes in, there is a big famous thing that happens.
Katelyn:
Yeah, and the big turning point to me is when it's— it goes into color.
Tom:
That's it. Yep.
Ali:
Bingo.
Katelyn:
Ohhh.
Ali:
So why were people disappointed until then?
Evan:
Sam told his family, "Hey guys, come over and watch a movie. There's a brand new technology."
Katelyn:
Color TV!
Evan:
"It's called color TV!" And then the family came over, and they were like, "Oh, it's black-and-white". But then it turns color, and they were like, "Whoa! Colors on TV!"
Ali:
That is it. You guys nailed it.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn applaud)
Ali:
Well done.
Katelyn:
Yay.
Ali:
Yes.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Ali:
Sam had replaced his black-and-white television with a color television. To test it, he put on The Wizard of Oz, which is the famous 1939 film that you guys knew. However, he didn't realize that the first 20 minutes are black-and-white, and only then does it transition to Technicolor.
Evan:
Ohhh.
Ali:
So... David, the question sender, says that this story is true. In the 1970s, a family member finally got a color TV. This was in the UK, and the color service on BBC only began fully in 1969. So most British families hadn't bought a color TV set yet. When they went to test the TV, and Wizard of Oz was on, they didn't realize for the first 20 minutes that the film was in black-and-white, and they thought their TV was either broken or that a color— the color TV was rubbish. And then they finally got the surprise.
Katelyn:
(cackles softly)
Evan:
Wow. I was so confused during the initial question. I'm like, why are they watching a falling house? I was like, did I mishear this question? My brain really was malfunctioning.
Tom:
This next question is from Tijs. Thank you very much. In a certain profession, a standard set of instructions will contain a list of items and their amounts in percentages. These values will always add up to more than 100%. One item is usually listed with the same percentage. Name the profession, the item, and its value. I will give you that one more time. In a certain profession, a standard set of instructions will contain a list of items and their amounts in percentages. These values will always add up to more than 100%. One item is usually listed with the same percentage. Name the profession, the item, and its value.
Evan:
I was initially thinking like cooking, baking, but that—
Ali:
Yeah.
Evan:
Then I— didn't make sense. Now I'm like, chemistry?
Tom:
Why didn't that make sense, Evan?
Ali:
What— When would a recipe be more than 100%?
Evan:
Also, recipes don't do it by percentages. They do it by amounts. And that's the— 'Cause so many of these Lateral questions are very precisely worded. And percentages doesn't read to me as cooking. That reads to me more...
Katelyn:
As like chemistry. I think resin.
Evan:
More like science or something like that. You know?
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Ali:
Unless you're scaling up and down a lot. Someone who does a recipe that's doing a small batch and then a big batch, and you need to continually change the batches.
Evan:
Yeah, maybe in like commercial cooking, it might be percentages.
Tom:
Well, that fell quickly. You're absolutely right. The profession is baking.
Katelyn:
Oh.
Evan:
Okay.
Tom:
But I still need the item and its percentage.
Katelyn:
And when you said that this item normally has the same percent...
Tom:
Yes.
Katelyn:
You're talking across recipes, this item?
Tom:
Across recipes.
Katelyn:
Okay.
Ali:
Is it love? Is it 100% love in every recipe?
Tom:
I did like, Evan, that you confidently ruled out your own guesses several times in a row there. And then I'm just sat here like, "I mean, how do I tell him it's..."
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Tom:
Yeah. You've dismissed the correct answer, which is a rare thing on here.
Ali:
Dismissed the correct answer.
Evan:
Well...
Katelyn:
So, there...
Ali:
What's in every baking recipe? Water?
Katelyn:
Yeah. I mean, if we're thinking about baking specifically, there's gonna be a lot of overlap in ingredients. You're gonna have, like a leavening agent, flour, eggs, salt, sugar.
Tom:
Good news, you've named it. (laughs)
SFX:
(Evan and Ali laugh)
Katelyn:
Okay, guys. Who remembers what I just said?
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Katelyn:
So, so this just has to be the same percentage across recipes. So it's like, what is gonna almost always be in the same ratio? There's certain—
Evan:
But I'm still struggling with the over 100%. How is it over 100%?
Katelyn:
We can only— I can only solve for one thing at a time.
SFX:
(Evan and Tom laugh)
Evan:
Maybe it's just like a word.
Katelyn:
Well, so I'm thinking—
Evan:
Different use, or something.
Katelyn:
Like for something like leavening agent.
Evan:
Yes.
Katelyn:
And I'm just using this as an example, 'cause I'm not— I don't bake a lot, but maybe there's always a percentage of like leavening agent to rest of volume, because it has to add enough air bubbles for the rest of that volume. Like there would be— It would always be the same percentage, whether you're scaling up or down. It would always be 10%— or 2% or whatever.
Tom:
You're scaling these recipes up and down. You said that, and you're absolutely right there. You don't know as you're writing these recipes down, whether you're making a tiny batch or enough to feed an army. So how might you write those quantities?
Evan:
One part, two part, three part.
Tom:
Yeah, this is something called a baker percentage. Or a baker's percentage. It is the way that some big baking recipes are written down. There is one key kind of logical jump here that I think is really unintuitive if you're used to regular recipes.
Evan:
So I— So it is like a certain type of recipe that gives it in parts, that ends up being over 100%. So it's like, if it's like one—
Tom:
It doesn't use parts. It uses percentages.
Katelyn:
Percentages.
Evan:
Or percentages.
Tom:
What's the baseline here? Establish the ingredient. What's always gonna be in every baking recipe?
Katelyn:
Flour.
Tom:
Yes.
Katelyn:
Okay.
Tom:
Flour in almost all baking recipes like this... will be marked with the same percentage.
Katelyn:
I mean, I'm thinking like 50% flour.
Tom:
Remember, the numbers add up to much more than 100.
Ali:
So maybe the flour is 100% because you're aiming to get it—
Tom:
Yeah. The ingredient is flour. The number is 100%. So knowing that, and knowing this is called a baker's percentage, how is this recipe written?
Katelyn:
If you have 100% flour and 100% sugar, that means equal parts flour and sugar.
Tom:
Yes! Spot on.
Evan:
Why would you do that?!
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Katelyn:
It's just like when we made thick resin! It was the same!
Evan:
Oh, you're right.
Tom:
What?
Katelyn:
100% resin, 100% silica. This should be easy for us!
Evan:
100% resin, 200% silica.
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Evan:
Oh yeah. That does kinda make sense.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Katelyn:
Yeah, so 100% is the baseline.
Tom:
Wait, you've used this before?!
Katelyn:
Yes!
Evan:
(guffaws)
Katelyn:
We just recently used it.
Evan:
Well, we didn't know it was a thing though.
Katelyn:
Well, we only had two ingredients.
Evan:
Yeah. So, but so, in a way, 100% flour is like one part flour to a certain part...
Tom:
Yes.
Evan:
other things. So it's just like a ratio, kind of.
Ali:
Flour's always the base one part.
Tom:
Yes.
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Tom:
It's a lot easier to say percentages rather than parts. Because if you have 2% yeast, you don't have to go
Evan:
Yes.
Tom:
1/50th of a part or 50 parts flour.
Evan:
Yes, yes.
Katelyn:
Yeah, yeah.
Evan:
Wow. No, that does make a lot of sense, now that I've gotten to the end.
Tom:
(laughs) It does. Once you complete it. It's just baffling beforehand!
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
I was like, I don't understand how it's more than 100%! My logical brain is breaking.
Katelyn:
Percentage is a concept.
Tom:
Yes, this is the baker's percentage, which instead of writing weights or volumes or parts, lists the biggest ingredient as 100% and ratios everything else from there. Evan, it is your question.
Evan:
This question has been sent in by Nick. In 2011, teenager Aquille Carr was given the nickname 'The Crime Stopper' in his hometown of Baltimore, Maryland. He wasn't a police officer, vigilante, or involved in law and order in any way. Why did he get that epithet? One more time. In 2011, teenager Aquille Carr was given the name 'The Crime Stopper' in his hometown of Baltimore, Maryland. He wasn't a police officer, vigilante, or involved in law and order in any way. Why did he get that epithet? Did I pronounce that name correctly?
Katelyn:
You pronounced Maryland wrong.
SFX:
(Tom and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
Only the second time.
Ali:
'Mary-land'. It's so cute.
Katelyn:
Not both times.
Tom:
Wait, wait, wait, wait. How did he say 'Maryland'?
Katelyn:
Mehr-a-lind.
Evan:
Mehr-a-lind. Mehr-a-lind?
Tom:
Mehr-a-lind.
Katelyn:
It's not Mary-land.
Evan:
Or should I say it again? I'll say it again.
Tom:
No, we'll— We're keeping that one in. We're keeping that one in.
Ali:
Yeah.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
No! Oh, no!
Katelyn:
Okay, okay.
Evan:
It's the land of Mary!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Evan:
The Mary-land.
Katelyn:
Okay.
Tom:
My first thought is this is... the Batman kid. Although I know you said no vigilantes. I remember there being a kid whose wish was to be a superhero. I think he had some illness, and his sort of wish that they give kids was like, "I wanna be Batman. I wanna be—" So, they gave him the Batman suit. He got a ride around. He got to arrest a staged criminal. But... you said not a vigilante. I feel like even in a question like this, that would count.
Evan:
You are completely wrong.
Tom:
Okay.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Katelyn:
Great, great.
Ali:
So this is making me think about how when you're supposed to not do crimes, they'll put mirrors around you. At any self checkout, if you can see yourself, you're less likely to do something illegal. And so is this kid just hanging out somewhere that just being a pair of eyes, that ends up making people realize, "Oh, I shouldn't be a criminal."
Evan:
No.
Katelyn:
Mm. So he's not like indirectly stopping crime.
Evan:
He did not personally intervene in any crimes.
Tom:
Oh, that rules out my plan that he'd got a hairdryer and was pointing it at passing cars to make it look like a speed trap.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Evan:
Ahh.
Tom:
People have done that.
Ali:
Is he the son of a big criminal? And that criminal was then doing paternal things instead of criming?
Tom:
Oh, so the mafia boss has decided to go legit now because, yeah.
Ali:
Yeah.
Tom:
Got a kid to deal with.
Ali:
Or he stopped working so much because he's at home with the crying baby.
Tom:
Also, if my American television knowledge is right, 'mafia' is the wrong term for Baltimore. That's a different state.
Ali:
(snickers)
Evan:
So Ali, think broader. Your same idea with the father, but think... bigger, in a way.
Ali:
It's Jesus.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom:
Sorry, I shouldn't have probably immediately laughed at the phrase, "it's Jesus", but...
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Ali:
He's a real crime stopper. What can I say? He stopped a lot of crime.
Katelyn:
How old was the kid again?
Evan:
He was a teenager.
Katelyn:
He was a teenager, okay.
Evan:
He was in high school.
Katelyn:
He was in high school. I wonder if he... Did he do something or get involved with his school or some sort of community program that got other kids off the streets or something like that? Like a preventative measure? So he wasn't involved in any active crimes, but something that would... help kids not go down that path, or his peers or something.
Evan:
Eh.
Tom:
What year was this?
Evan:
2011.
Tom:
Okay, no, that is too late for '90s educational rap. Never mind.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ali:
What was that study where they cleaned up the graffiti, and then suddenly crime stopped happening on those streets, when you make the streets look like crime shouldn't happen there? Was he cleaning? Maybe he did a mural.
Evan:
What other things could a high schooler be involved with, that would affect a large crowd, perhaps?
Ali:
Oh, he's a football player, and everyone's coming to watch him instead of stealing on Friday nights.
Tom:
Oh, like that story there were no crimes when the Beatles played on The Ed Sullivan Show, which I don't think is true.
Evan:
You guys are—
Tom:
But—
Evan:
You guys are so close. I don't know if I should give it to you or not yet.
Katelyn:
So he is a different sport player.
Ali:
Basketball?
Katelyn:
Basketball? Okay.
Evan:
You got it. You got it. So that's it. Carr was a high school basketball phenomenon. In 2011, The Washington Post reported that he had been given the nickname 'The Crime Stopper' because everyone in East Baltimore, even the criminals, flocked to watch him play. A similar effect had been seen in the Philippines when boxer Manny Pacquiao was in action. In 2008, Manila police claimed that the recorded crime rate hit 0%, at least for a short while. So he was just a really good basketball player, and everyone wanted to see him play.
Tom:
Wow!
Katelyn:
Wow! Very wholesome. We love it.
Ali:
That's the perfect time to do a crime. Are you kidding me?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Ali:
The game's on. Let's go steal everything.
Evan:
Do the biggest crime.
Tom:
It depends whether the police are over there. If the police are watching him play, perfect crime time.
Evan:
(laughs)
Tom:
I didn't mean to rhyme that, but we'll stick with it. If the police are still patrolling, on the other hand, not great. Those were solved very quickly. So we have unlocked the shiny bonus question. Sent in by Gill Maulana. Thank you very much. People such as Barack Obama, Jamie Lee Curtis, and Bill Gates have held this record for 0.3 seconds on average. What is it? I'll say that again. People such as Barack Obama, Jamie Lee Curtis, and Bill Gates have held this record for 0.3 seconds on average. What is it?
Evan:
0.3 seconds. That's a very short amount of time. And then it passes along to someone else? Or does it revert back to the original title holder or something like that?
Katelyn:
I feel like with the way records work, it would have to pass along to someone else. Because records don't revert...
Evan:
Backwards.
Katelyn:
As far as I know. They don't go backwards. They can only go forwards. It can only be pushed farther. So that means it must be a record that...
Evan:
Gets broken. Wait. The latest person born.
Tom:
Oh my word! Out of nowhere, Evan!
Ali:
(laughs)
Tom:
Keep talking! Tell me about it.
Evan:
Oh yeah! (applauds)
Ali:
Wow!
Evan:
So I was thinking, what's something that's happening continuously... but that's a distinct event that would be held by people? And it was... the last person born.
Tom:
Yeah.
Evan:
Because there were people being born at that pace, about.
Katelyn:
Oh my god.
Ali:
You know, I held this record as well, actually.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ali:
And you picked better celebrities than me?
Evan:
Yeah, we did too.
Tom:
So, the way it's phrased on my card is "Youngest person on Earth". The first clue I've got is, some other famous people who've held the record: Abraham Lincoln, Whoopi Goldberg. Using the best estimate possible, I held the record for about 0.23 seconds. Why is my number different?
Katelyn:
Were you a twin?
Tom:
Wouldn't make a difference. Twins don't come out 0.23 seconds apart.
Katelyn:
Oh yeah, you're right.
Evan:
It must have been during a time when birth rates were lower.
Tom:
Lower?
Ali:
Oh.
Katelyn:
Or... Higher, right? Because it went from 0.3 to 0.23.
Evan:
Right, right.
Tom:
Yes.
Katelyn:
Higher birth rate.
Tom:
Yes, absolutely right.
Ali:
So you came out nine months after Valentine's Day. That's why.
SFX:
(Evan and Katelyn laugh)
Tom:
So obviously it depends on month of the year, which year it was as well. The major part of the difference there is that there are just more people being born as you get later. The people we mentioned there – Barack Obama, Jamie Lee Curtis, Bill Gates – those would be sort of 1960s, kind of late Baby Boomers. By the time you get to the Millennials, it's about 0.23 seconds. And 2012 would be 0.216 seconds of holding that record.
Ali:
Wow, we're cranking out people.
Evan:
So it was a complete red herring to list famous people.
Tom:
(laughs) Yeah! Absolutely.
Evan:
(laughs)
Tom:
100% complete red herring.
Katelyn:
You got that so fast.
Evan:
I'm sorry, it's like... We unlocked the shiny bonus question that's gonna buy us time. I'm sorry that I destroyed it.
SFX:
(Katelyn and Evan laugh)
Tom:
Which brings me finally to the question at the very start of the show. Sent in by Adam Reiner. Thank you very much. Where can you be employed as a 'model citizen'?
Evan:
Is it like the UN or something?
Tom:
Why do you say that?
Evan:
Because there's model nations.
Tom:
I don't know what that is.
Evan:
This might just be a US thing, but I thought that the US school system sent kids to like the model UNs.
Tom:
Oh, yes. It's like a simulation, right? Loads of kids go along.
Evan:
Yes, yeah.
Tom:
Yeah, to fake represent countries and learn diplomacy.
Ali:
You're saying simulation. Was there a Second Life, you people got paid to be NPCs? I don't know happened in the '90s.
Katelyn:
(chuckles)
Evan:
Model citizen.
Ali:
AI training data.
Evan:
(laughs)
Katelyn:
Oh. Because a model citizen is like a phrase that's like a content phrase. I'm a model citizen.
Evan:
An upright model citizen.
Katelyn:
But what if we need to take it literally? Like it was somewhere paying models to come be a citizen?
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ali:
We have a citizen sketching class, and we need you to stand here.
Katelyn:
Yeah, we need more hot people.
Tom:
(laughs)
Katelyn:
Yeah.
Ali:
Is this extras? You're doubles in a movie, and you're being a citizen in the background? Or...
Tom:
That's closer. It's certainly not in the terms of fashion model, and it is absolutely a pun. but it's not that sense, Ali.
Evan:
It's a pun.
Katelyn:
Okay, it's a pun.
Tom:
Little bit of a pun, yeah.
Ali:
Oh, those... When they're recreating old timey towns for tourists. You can be a citizen of the town, and you reenact, and you stay in character, and you can't even tell people where the bathroom is, or the souvenir shop.
Tom:
Now you're getting very close there. One of my notes is that in similar places, these might be referred to as cast members.
Evan:
Ooh. Is this like Disney?
Katelyn:
Disney?
Ali:
Disney?
Tom:
It's very similar, yes. So who calls their cast members – or at least some of their cast members – 'model citizens'?
Katelyn:
Or it's like, my brain goes to other Disney-esque things like Universal Studios.
Evan:
Yeah, Universal.
Tom:
Yep. Keep thinking that way.
Katelyn:
So, okay, so we're on the right track. So like at Universal Studios.
Ali:
I don't know any more amusement parks. Six Flags?
Evan:
Would it be outside of the US, maybe?
Tom:
More European. These definitely exist in the US, but more European.
Ali:
Oh, LEGO. Mm.
Tom:
Ali, talk us through it.
Ali:
LEGO modeling. And the little yellow dude is a LEGO model.
Katelyn:
LEGO models!
Ali:
And so they are all model citizens.
Tom:
Yes. LEGOland calls the actors in LEGO suits "model citizens". Spot on.
Katelyn:
We were so close. Yeah.
Tom:
Well done, Ali. Well done, everyone. What's going on in your lives? Where can people find you? We will start with Evan and Katelyn.
Katelyn:
You can find us on YouTube and Twitch and other things. Something recent we made that you can come see is we made a Tesla lightning staff. It shoots lightning.
Tom:
Wow!
Katelyn:
So, if you wanna see how we made it, that's on our channel.
Evan:
I would turn it on, but I don't know if Tesla coils will interfere with audio equipment.
Katelyn:
There's too many electronics in here.
Tom:
Let's not take that risk right now. Where can people find you?
Evan:
(laughs)
Katelyn:
Evan and Katelyn on YouTube.
Evan:
Yeah.
Tom:
And Ali.
Ali:
Hi, you can find me at @AliSpagnola on YouTube and all of the other platforms. And I just recently made a life-sized version of my dog out of paper. So go see that.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com, where you can also send in your own ideas for questions. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere. There are video highlights at youtube.com/lateralcast and full video episodes on Spotify. Thank you very much to Ali Spagnola.
Ali:
Thanks, this was awesome.
Tom:
Evan and Katelyn.
Katelyn:
Woo, thank you.
Evan:
Thank you. My brain feels sore, but stronger.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | David Lever, Julian, Nick, Adam Reiner, Jeroen, Patrick, Tijs |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |