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Episode 156: Newspaper espionage
3rd October, 2025 • Karen Chu, Colin Felton and Daniel Peake face questions about longer lyrics, inconvenient injuries and gainful glasses.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
Why have several people added an extra verse to a 1959 song that was already difficult to perform?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
We are big fans of the legendary actor Brian Blessed here at Lateral. So, it was a joy to invite onto the show the hosts of the fan podcast "Good Job, Brian".
Unfortunately, due to quite an understandable administrative error, that didn't quite happen. So, please welcome, two of the hosts of the wonderful podcast Good Job, Brain.
We start, Colin Felton, welcome back to the show.
Colin:
Delighted to be back. I made the cut.
Tom:
(laughs) Yes, well, it was your first time on the show, last time you were here. How are you feeling this second time through?
Colin:
I've had a lot less caffeine this time. So I'm gonna keep the same energy, but keep the heart rate down. That's my goal.
Tom:
(laughs heartily) Well, that is very much appreciated. Tell us about Good Job, Brain.
Colin:
Good Job, Brain is a seasonally weekly podcast. It's a little bit of pub quiz style questioning, some trivia, some random stories, and we just try and keep each other entertained and informed.
Tom:
And we are joined again by one of the each others from Good Job, Brain. Karen Chu, welcome back to the show.
Karen:
Hello, I'm Karen.
Guess what? We also own the domain GoodJobBrian.com.
Colin:
We do.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan laugh uproariously)
Colin:
Absolutely.
Karen:
Because...
Tom:
Incredible.
Karen:
This is a very common error.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
People would listen to, you know, they would write in and be like, "Oh, my name is Brian. I thought this was a podcast about Brians." And then turns out it was brains, and it's pretty good. But yes, yes.
We also own LooseMeats.com as well. That redirects to... yeah.
Tom:
Oh dear. Why? Is that— Is that the sort of anecdote that can be told in about 15 seconds in a podcast introduction, or are people just gonna go and have to listen to your show?
Karen:
Oh, no, I can freely share this. There's a type of sandwich in regional America called loose meat, loose meat sandwich, which is literally
Tom:
Oh no.
Karen:
just loose meat between bread.
Colin:
Exactly what it sounds like.
Karen:
Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. But yeah.
Tom:
I—
Karen:
Happy to be here!
SFX:
(guys laughing)
Tom:
Thank you very much for returning to the show.
The third member of the panel is one of our regulars. Welcome back to the show puzzle writer, quiz editor, or possibly the other way around on those, Dan Peake, welcome back.
Dan:
Good day, sir.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Dan:
Have I got questions for you?
Tom:
I mean, that is literally your job right now is question writing.
Dan:
It is, it is. And at times, we've— I've recently been helping filming with Only Connect. I get to do scoring and things like that. So not only—
Karen:
Wow!
Dan:
Not only do I watch it be filmed, I get to "Mm yes, I'll give them a point for that."
Tom:
Okay, in the sense of points, and not in the sense of orchestral productions.
Dan:
Absolutely.
Tom:
You are not scoring the show.
Dan:
Absolutely. I'm giving points. And what do points mean?
Tom:
A trophy, I think. A trophy.
Dan:
For those who don't know, Only Connect is a Briti— an esoterically difficult question... quiz show where the winners get a trophy and that's it.
Tom:
I really struggled not to immediately yell back "prizes".
Dan:
(wheezes)
Tom:
That is deep brain tape there. You said "what do points mean?" and I just immediately went, "D'aagh, unngh! It's not, it's not true."
Karen:
(laughs)
Tom:
My pedantry won out over my reflex game show call-and-response.
Dan:
Yep.
SFX:
(Colin and Karen chuckle)
Colin:
Inside you are two pedants.
Tom:
(laughs) Well, to all three of you, it is nice to see you, to see you...
Dan:
Reasonable.
Tom:
That'll do. Close enough, Dan. Let us move on swiftly and climb the Everest of question one.
Karen:
Ooh.
Tom:
Thank you to Robert Matte for sending in this question.
Robert recently had a small cut near a fingernail that drew blood. When he went to dress the wound, he realised that he could not do it in the best way possible. Why?
I'll say that again.
Robert recently had a small cut near a fingernail that drew blood. When he went to dress the wound, he realised that he could not do it in the best way possible. Why?
Dan:
I do hate it when— you know you get the tiny little flap of skin on one of the sides of your nails, and you decide—
Tom:
A hangnail.
Dan:
Yeah, well, it's not the nail.
Colin:
(shudders)
Dan:
Is it that?
Colin:
It's nail adjacent.
Dan:
It's not the nail. It's the skin by the side. And then you just go, oh, just quickly nip it off, and it just keeps on going.
Karen:
Going.
Dan:
It's just like... And then it's painful for two days afterwards. I don't know if you can use any of that. Enjoy.
Colin:
(laughs)
Tom:
I don't either, but it is unsurprisingly nothing to do with the details of hangnails.
Colin:
Okay, okay.
Karen:
Okay.
Colin:
I mean, my first thought is simply, it's just a handedness. Left-handed, right-handed. You know, I mean, I've had— I am right-handed. I've had a cut on my right hand. And it's sometimes hard to dress using my left hand, but—
Karen:
It wouldn't be impossible.
Colin:
It seems a bit simple, yeah.
Karen:
Dress near the fingernail.
Colin:
Near the fingernail.
Dan:
Did he say fingernail? Hang on.
Tom:
He did, he did. Small cut near a fingernail.
Dan:
Because if it was a small cut near a nail, it could have just been any old, you know, tack that you were hammering in. And, you know, you got your hand in the way. But no, fingernail, okay.
Colin:
Yeah, yeah. Or even a toenail. I could maybe elaborate.
Dan:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Colin:
But fingernail.
Karen:
You can always use the other hand, right?
Colin:
Hmm.
Karen:
And that's— it's— Why would it be impossible? It's like, I can see how it's impossible with one hand.
Tom:
I'm just gonna repeat the question here. He could not do it in the best way possible.
Karen:
Oh, the best way.
Colin:
In the best way.
Tom:
It was not impossible to dress the wound, but he couldn't do it in the best way.
Colin:
Okay.
Tom:
So maybe talk through what the best way would be. You got a small cut near your fingernail. Whatcha gonna do?
Colin:
Yeah, what would we do if I had a little cut? I would wash it. I would maybe disinfect it. I would, you know...
Karen:
Neosporin.
Colin:
Maybe, depending on— Maybe some Neosporin or something. And then I would put a, that, you know—
Tom:
That's such an American thing.
Karen:
Oh?
Colin:
(chuckles)
Tom:
No other country I know... I mean, I'm sure it's somewhere in places with less medical regulation. But nowhere I've been offers antibiotics just over-the-counter to just spread liberally on stuff.
Karen:
We put it on toast. It is everywhere.
Tom:
(laughs uproariously)
Colin:
And it doesn't work very well. Yeah, it's like Vaseline, essentially.
Tom:
Yeah, It's an antibiotic.
Colin:
Yeah.
Tom:
It really shouldn't be.
Karen:
Yeah.
Colin:
And then I would top it with a, you know, a...
Karen:
A Band-Aid.
Colin:
A Band-Aid or a little bandage, right?
Tom:
Yes, you would.
Karen:
Ooh. Peeling the Band-Aid. You have to open the wrapper, then you have to get the stickies out, and they're trying not to have the flaps stick to each other, which is really annoying.
Colin:
Yep.
Karen:
Then you're like, "I gotta get a new Band-Aid."
Colin:
Is it a matter of limited mobility? Perhaps Robert's other hand cannot be used as well, or maybe is missing entirely.
Dan:
Mhm.
Tom:
You don't need to know anything about Robert specifically.
Karen:
Okay.
Colin:
Okay, alright.
Tom:
But the cut was on his dominant hand.
Dan:
Sure. So if you're going to do something with your off-dominant hand, it will always be trickier.
Colin:
Yeah. I'm looking at my own hand to see if there's anything about the hand itself. Do you both think it's the hand or maybe the tools? Or the tools being brought to bear?
Dan:
I think it's something to do with the plaster, and I can't work out why.
Karen:
I'm sorry, did you say plaster?
Tom:
(chuckles)
Dan:
Yeah, sorry. It's what we call Band-Aid.
Karen:
Ohh! That's cool! The plaster.
Dan:
Yeah.
Karen:
Yeah, maybe it's in a weird shape. I've seen Band-Aids where, you know, you have your normal kind of Band-Aid that's kind of ovaly, but then I've also seen star-shaped Band-Aid that's designed for the top of your finger. And it's like a star. It's like a starfish.
Dan:
Oh, that's cool.
Tom:
If he had one of those, he wouldn't have had this problem.
Colin:
Ohhh.
Karen:
Oh!
Dan:
So is it like a wrapping problem? And we're not talking music here. We're talking...
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Dan:
Christmas presents, that sort of thing.
Colin:
(cackles softly) Perhaps the plaster or Band-Aid that he had is a giant one, six by eight inches, or something like that.
Tom:
It's not giant, but how would you normally wrap a small cut on a finger?
Dan:
Just around the...
Karen:
'Round it.
Tom:
Right, yes.
Karen:
But it's in a place that is very difficult to wrap around, like the fingertips or maybe... somewhere that doesn't have that much surface for it to adhere to.
Tom:
It wouldn't be difficult to do that, but it would affect a daily activity.
Colin:
Mmmm. So he needed to maintain access, perhaps, to the finger.
Tom:
Mhm.
Colin:
That prevented him from wrapping it in the way that you or I might, if we had the same injury.
Karen:
To use his phone? Maybe he has to use his phone.
Dan:
Oooh!
Colin:
Ohhh!
Dan:
Or either that, or maybe his finger is—
Karen:
It can't—
Dan:
Is a pass— password. You know, a biological—
Tom:
That's it. Yes.
Karen:
Yes.
Colin:
Ahhh.
Karen:
Ahhh! (applauds)
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
Good job, Daniel.
Tom:
Robert accidentally suffered a small cut on his index finger near the nail. Normally, as you said, you put the Band-Aid, the plaster on by wrapping it 'round your finger.
But that would've obstructed the one fingerprint he had registered on his phone.
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
No. (laughs)
Tom:
And so therefore, he had to orient the bandage and cut it down and make sure he didn't cover his fingerprint.
Colin:
Oh, man.
Dan:
That's delightfully annoying.
Tom:
(cackles)
Colin:
(laughs awkwardly) 'Cause even to add a new finger, you would need to validate with the existing one.
Karen:
Existing finger.
Colin:
Right. You're right back where you started. Oh, how frustrating.
Tom:
Karen, over to you for your question, please.
Karen:
This question has been set in by Kell.
In a tournament Scrabble game, North American champion Matthew Tunnicliffe called over the referee. He asked for the two-letter word 'EL' – spelled E-L – to be checked, and lost five points for the incorrect challenge. Why did he do it?
And here's the question again.
In a tournament Scrabble game, North American champion Matthew Tunnicliffe called over the referee. He asked for the two-letter word 'EL' – spelled E-L – to be checked, and lost five points for the incorrect challenge. Why did he do it?
Tom:
Okay. We should first of all explain for anyone who grew up with house rules of Scrabble that completely ignored the idea of challenging, which I think is a lot of people.
Dan:
Mhm.
Colin:
Yeah.
Tom:
How that actually works.
Dan:
If you see a word that you don't think is a word.
Tom:
(cracks up) Remember the three Ss. See it, say it— sorry.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Colin:
Scrabble it?
Tom:
See it, say it, Scrabble. There we go. Thank you.
Colin:
Yeah, you can brand that.
Tom:
Oh, that joke will land for a small fraction of the audience. I'm glad it worked today.
Dan:
And we love you all, our trained friends.
SFX:
(Tom and Karen laugh)
Dan:
If there's a word on the board that you think isn't a word, you challenge it. And I don't know. I think it, so if it's a successful challenge that gets removed from the board, and there will be some form of penalty, which I think can vary from probably tournament to tournament. But that's the essence. You can challenge a word. But if of course, if it's right... then...
Tom:
I thought you just lost a turn. You also lose points apparently.
Karen:
So in this specific tournament, the rules are, you can challenge a word, and if you... are incorrect, and that word is valid, you do get points deducted. But it is still your turn.
Dan:
So if it's an incorrect challenge, and that is actually a word, it blows back on you.
Colin:
Yeah.
Karen:
Yes.
Tom:
And that is a strategy. There are people who will deliberately play words that they know are not in the dictionary... because they look good enough and maybe the opponent won't challenge it. And that is a—
Dan:
Yeah.
Colin:
Yeah.
Tom:
I believe in casual play, that is what would be referred to as a dick move.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
But in competitive play, that is a valid strategy.
Colin:
So the question being, why did he do it? Meaning, why did he issue a challenge? I think could be taken two ways. Meaning why did he think this word was incorrect? Or why did he knowingly issue a challenge on a word that he thought was correct?
Dan:
E-L is going to be quite a common... two-letter Scrabble word. It's one— If you're a Scrabbler at a tournament, you will have memorised all of the two-letter words. So they will know, that's a word.
Tom:
I have... (snickers) During lockdown, I spent quite a bit of time playing online Scrabble.
Karen:
Mhm.
Colin:
Yeah.
Tom:
And I realise how petty it is that I still remember this as just a great moment, but I was losing very badly in a game. But my opponent's clock was on 20 seconds. And all I had to do was skip enough times... And their timer ran out.
Colin:
(giggles)
Tom:
And that moment, I don't know who they were. I've never met 'em, but if at some point during lockdown you were beaten by some jerk on— who had a little British flag... because you didn't check— that might have been me. And I make no apologies for it.
SFX:
(Dan and Colin laugh)
Tom:
My point is... that maybe there was, like... if it's a tournament, there is a rule... that the whole game must be over in this amount of time, and he's trying to force a time-out. And calling the marshal over counts against that time.
Colin:
Hmm.
Karen:
When would you play 'EL'? What are the times that you would play a two-letter word?
Dan:
Towards the end probably. So you're probably only playing...
Tom:
Or when you're trying to play a much larger word and that comes in as part of it. Like you're laying down a word next to another.
Dan:
So whilst they played a two-letter word... I am assuming it made other words as well as 'EL'.
Colin:
Like in a corner perhaps.
Karen:
Correct.
Dan:
Okay, so is one of those other words a word that looked potentially like it wasn't a word?
Karen:
(nods silently)
Colin:
Mm.
Dan:
That doesn't help me.
Tom:
Why would you lose five points?
Dan:
The only thing I could think of about losing points is what if you didn't want to win? What if you wanted to lose? And somehow you might get a better draw in the next round?
Karen:
It's in a similar spirit, but not exactly that. It's definitely a strategic move.
Dan:
Ooh. If you don't know it's a word, and you've got an S, and you want to make a plural of it...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Dan:
But you weren't sure.
Karen:
Classic move.
Dan:
Is it just making sure that this was a word? "Right, I gotta pluralise that and put an S on the end."
Karen:
So he... The key phrase is he called over the referee.
Dan:
Ooh, okay, Tom. This might be going back to you.
Tom:
(chuckles meekly)
Dan:
Playing online. You ran down someone's clock. Is he trying to run down a clock? So even though he loses points... If his opponent only has 30 seconds or so, and he's called, it's their turn.
Colin:
Ahh.
Dan:
The clock stays on them. Does the clock—
Tom:
Or... is the opponent doing something else? Is the opponent breaking some other rule? And he wants to bring the referee's attention to that?
Karen:
He's not doing anything malicious or tricky. It really is the timing of... timing of his realization, is key of his challenge realization.
Dan:
Well, does he need more time to think about a word that he needs?
Colin:
Hmm.
Karen:
No, he did make a realization. So, let's look at the facts. So he— There's 'EL', which is the word. And we've established that... there's 'EL' and another word.
Tom:
I really like that, Dan, that he's stopped his own clock running down. But that feels like that's a... Bad sportsmanship is, it feels like, is not the answer to this question.
Karen:
What is the goal? What is your ultimate feel-good goal in Scrabble? To get— What's your flex?
Dan:
Lay down all your tiles. Get all—
Karen:
Which is called what?
Tom:
A bingo.
Colin:
The bingo.
Tom:
And if you really wanna flex, you're doing that on two triple-word scores.
Colin:
(chuckles)
Karen:
Hmm.
Tom:
But why would you need the ref to come over?
Karen:
So, so again, Matthew... He lost the challenge, right? He challenged, he challenged on a valid word.
Colin:
Mhm.
Karen:
And it was still his turn. So he took the point loss, but in this tournament, it's still his turn.
Colin:
Okay. (sighs) He knew the other word was invalid. The other two letter word formed in addition to 'EL'. He knew that word was invalid. But he wanted to play off that word to make a valid turn.
But again, I'm struggling to say why he had to call the referee over to structure this.
Dan:
Oh, so it's the mistaken challenge. Like he— the realisation he's had is he's got a bingo or something big that he can play off of this.
But he hadn't realised when he started the challenge.
Colin:
Ahh.
Tom:
Ohh!
Dan:
He had a good word come into his head. So even though there's an incorrect word on the board or something like that, he goes, "Oh, I just— I— Whilst there is an incorrect word, I'm gonna challenge the valid word. 'Cause I still want it to be my go."
Karen:
(applauds)
Colin:
He wanted it to stand.
Tom:
Right!
Colin:
Okay.
Tom:
Ohhh!
Colin:
I was sort of onto it, but I was like, why? Yeah. Oh, that makes— That makes a lot of sense.
Dan:
And then you play a really good word, and that five point hit, Yeah, you just have to take it.
Tom:
Yeah.
Karen:
It was to keep his opponent's invalid word on the board.
Dan:
(laughs)
Karen:
'EL' was one of the byproduct words.
Colin:
Right.
Karen:
Yes. So, so... Matthew's opponent had played the invalid word 'lavo', L-A-V-O, on the board, thus creating also, spelling 'EL', E-L, the word, which is a valid word.
And so he's like, "Oh, lavo's not a word." He called over the ref to challenge the play, so that it can be taken off the board.
However... as the referee's pacing over, he's like, "Oh, I can make a bingo at a strategic place If this word stays."
Colin:
That's great.
Karen:
"But uh-oh, I already challenged it." So, yes. To avoid the opponent's invalid word being removed from the board, he intentionally challenged a valid word.
Colin:
That's great.
Karen:
And so he took a five-point loss. And yeah. And in this tournament, the rules were, you could continue your turn. And so then he was able to play leaguer, L-E-A-G-U-E-R for 65 points, including the 50-point bingo bonus.
Tom:
This question was sent in by Isaiah.
Around 1840, Alfred Vail walked into a newspaper office, looked around, took a few notes, and left. His subsequent conversation with Samuel became very important. How?
I'll give you that again.
Around 1840, Alfred Vail walked into a newspaper office, looked around, took a few notes, and left. His subsequent conversation with Samuel became very important. How?
Colin:
Hmm. Well, my brain goes to one place that I feel like Karen and I have the connection here, Karen.
Karen:
I mean, I feel like this might be a famous Samuel.
Tom:
It might be.
Colin:
That's my— That was my hackles here, my hunch here is that maybe it's a famous Samuel. Okay.
Tom:
(laughs) Okay. So that was a really good start. Y'all are gonna need to name some famous Samuels.
Colin:
No, we actually have to— Okay. Well...
Tom:
I thought you just cracked it immediately there with the cast was like, oh yes, it's some Samuels.
Colin:
1840 around, thereabouts. Yeah, alright. I'm thinking walking into a newspaper office— Is Samuel, Samuel Morse? I mean, let's just get this out of the way here.
Karen:
Yeah, yeah. Samuel FB Morse.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
Yeah!
Tom:
Samuel Morse.
Colin:
Okay, so Samuel Morse, famous for the code that bears his name, Morse code, a method of communicating over telegraph with dots and dashes. Why does he have his compatriots surveying newspaper rooms in 1840?
Karen:
Maybe trying to catch a headline, and maybe they were testing the code. I mean... The question did ask for a subsequent conversation, but that conversation doesn't necessarily have to be... oral.
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
They could be chatting using the Morse code and sending... notes from the newspaper, headlines from the newspaper, or maybe a event happened, like a large event, 1840.
Dan:
I feel like we are going towards the first message by Morse. That would make sense, but I don't understand anything to do with this tele— anything to do with this newspaper business yet.
Tom:
Yes, Alfred Vale walked into a newspaper office, looked around, took a few notes, and left. And then afterwards, his conversation with Samuel Morse was very important.
Colin:
Yeah, this— I don't get any sense of urgency here. So it doesn't feel like he's like, you know, relaying something very time-dependent. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it's more... sussing out how the information is transmitted, perhaps. Or... (sighs)
Karen:
Maybe there was a problem. Maybe he noted that there was some sort of issue and then was workshopping with Morse afterwards. He's like, "Hey, I went to— I spotted something." And it's like, you know, maybe you're onto something with this Morse code that we could solve, And maybe it's a problem that we could solve.
Dan:
A piece of technology in the newspaper office that would've helped them out or something.
Tom:
Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.
Dan:
I'm trying to remember what the first message sent by Morse was. I think it was something like, "What hath God wrought".
Tom:
Yes, I'm not sure—
Colin:
That sounds right.
Dan:
But I don't think it's anything to do with that in this newspaper context, which is a shame.
Tom:
Yeah, the first official message there. I'm sure there were some tests beforehand, right?
Karen:
(laughs) Yeah.
Colin:
Right, right.
Karen:
Spelled 'boobs'. Yeah.
SFX:
(guys laugh heartily)
Colin:
Yes.
Karen:
We all did it.
Colin:
Okay, so he's looking at maybe some technology that they're using in the newsp— I mean, in the newspaper, right? I mean, they're in the business of timely information. They're in the business of transferring information. They're— I doubt that he'd be interested in the printing side of things.
Karen:
Or maybe timing how fast the messages could get to the newspaper headquarters.
Colin:
Ahhh.
Karen:
Like, man, I don't, you know, They're gonna be like, "Ah, it's too slow." Maybe they're doing a little bit of market research.
Tom:
Colin, I wouldn't be so quick to discount the printing technology.
Colin:
Okay, alright, alright. So...
Tom:
It's 1840. How are newspapers printed?
Dan:
Is that still metal plates at that point in time?
Colin:
Ooh, hand-set... Hand-lettered, hand-set...
Tom:
Yes. Movable type would be the formal term for it.
Colin:
Mhm.
Tom:
Talk me through how that works.
Colin:
Well, you've got... essentially a giant rack on which you put the individual letters. And, you know, if you're lucky, maybe some clip art or wingdings.
SFX:
(Dan and Tom laugh)
Colin:
But in general, you're assembling the letters in the words, in the headlines. One... one letter at a time.
Karen:
One letter at a time.
Colin:
With movable pieces of type. And then stamping that repeatedly onto paper for distribution.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
What does Morse have to do with this?
Dan:
(gasps loudly)
Colin:
Oh!
Karen:
Oh—!
Colin:
Letter frequency.
Dan:
Frequency, yes.
Colin:
Letter frequency.
Tom:
I love how all three of you clearly got that. There was a two-second pause, and then everyone got that at the same moment.
Karen:
(sighs)
Colin:
Totally.
Dan:
So how do you know which letters need to be shorter?
Karen:
Shorter.
Colin:
Yeah.
Karen:
'Cause they're more common.
Dan:
Exactly.
Colin:
You wanna be efficient.
Dan:
Ah.
Tom:
Yes.
Dan:
So you need to do a frequency analysis of something... And so you just take the nearest source that you can.
Tom:
Yes. Alfred Vail was a working partner with Samuel Morse.
Despite the fact that Morse's name is on the patents and Morse's name is on the code, Morse's system was actually kind of inefficient. So when trying to devise an efficient communication system, Vail went to the Moorstown newspaper office and counted the amount of each letter in their movable type press.
Karen:
Ohh!
Colin:
I love that.
Tom:
And they then allocated the shorter patterns to the letters that were used more frequently. Vail provided the efficiencies. Morse got his name on it.
Dan, it is over to you for the next question.
Dan:
This question has been sent in by Ian B.
How is the fish Eigenmannia virescens similar to a Wi-Fi access point?
Tom:
(flops back)
Colin:
(chuckles)
Dan:
How is the fish Eigenmannia virescens similar to a Wi-Fi access point?
Colin:
(laughs)
Karen:
Ooh.
Colin:
Huh!
Tom:
Wow!
Dan:
(chuckles deviously)
Colin:
This feels like a Lewis Carroll...
Karen:
Yeah, a raven–writing desk.
Colin:
Totally. How is a raven like a writing desk? Right.
Tom:
(laughs)
Colin:
Okay, so... It transmits information somehow to the other fish in its species, about, I don't know, danger or mating or whatever the fish care about.
Tom:
I feel like fish are not smart enough to have a communications network, surely. Like octopuses, I believe that. But fish?
Colin:
That's fair.
Dan:
It's why they go to school.
Tom:
Eyyy!
Karen:
(laughs heartily)
Colin:
Oh dear.
SFX:
(Tom and Dan deflate)
Colin:
Oh goodness.
Dan:
No, no, Karen, no!
Tom:
That landed differently with everyone in this call.
SFX:
(laughter trails off)
(Dan and Karen sigh)
Colin:
You call them dad jokes in the UK as well, right?
Tom:
Yeah, yeah, we do.
Colin:
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Karen:
English is my second language, and it never ceases to crack me up.
SFX:
(Tom and Colin laugh)
Karen:
Puns are great. Well, okay, so... You know what I'm doing when I see that there's Wi-Fi, I need to know the password to get on it. Maybe this fish has some sort of password mechanic, or maybe it's a key, or something to...
Colin:
Ah.
Dan:
A cod to login?
Karen:
(laughs) Yes, yes. Ooh.
Colin:
Okay. Alright. So what are the features of a Wi-Fi access point? I mean, it has a name, it has— that publicly broadcast. It has a password. Karen, as you noted.
Tom:
There are different channels it can broadcast on, and maybe this fish is in river channels.
Colin:
Ahhh.
SFX:
(Dan and Karen laugh)
Tom:
Or streaming! Streams!
Dan:
Oh, nice, nice.
Karen:
Oh! Li... They live in the stream. Live stream.
Colin:
A lot of pure pun-based answers for sure. I like though, Tom, you mentioned maybe can click or something at two different frequencies.
Tom:
Mm.
Colin:
You know what I mean? On whatever rudimentary communication it does have.
Karen:
Oh, like a 5G and a 2G?
Colin:
Yeah, something maybe approximating that?
Karen:
Or it can broadcast, it can maybe be like, you know, a modem.
Tom:
Picking up some signal and repeating it or something like that.
Karen:
And then amplifying it.
Tom:
Yeah.
Dan:
Okay. You are very close.
SFX:
(guessers murmur)
Dan:
Something you've said has been very close.
Tom:
If we knew the common name of this fish, not the Latin name, would this be blindingly obvious, Dan?
Dan:
Ehh, I don't think so.
Tom:
Okay, okay.
Karen:
The Wi-Fi fish.
SFX:
(guessers laugh in turn)
Colin:
It looks like the little Wi-Fi signal. It has three little lines coming off its forehead.
Karen:
Maybe we don't know what this fish looks like. So maybe it's one of the fish with an interesting feature that maybe amplifies waves, or something, frequency. But it has a physical feature that helps facilitate that.
Dan:
It— The fish has a special ability, yes.
Tom:
That makes it sound like a Pokémon.
SFX:
(Dan and Colin laugh)
Colin:
In its second form.
Tom:
(laughs)
Colin:
Is it repeating somehow? You know, almost like—
Dan:
Not repeating though. That's where you've gone off the track slowly.
Colin:
Okay.
Tom:
Okay.
Dan:
But you've been very close with something you've said.
Colin:
So it needs an input. It's like an input and some sort of output is what I'm feeling.
Tom:
Other fish can connect to it wirelessly.
Dan:
It is a form— It is a problem when there are other fish around, yes.
Tom:
Oh?
Colin:
Oh.
Karen:
Oh, it dampens... it maybe... fudges with a signal.
Colin:
Overloaded on a channel or something, right, analogous?
Dan:
Keep going.
Colin:
Okay. It gets overloaded and has to switch voices or switch frequencies or switch to be heard. To stand out. To disambiguate itself.
Dan:
That is exactly what it does.
Karen:
(gasps)
Tom:
Wow!
Dan:
It's a fish that changes frequencies to avoid signal interference.
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
Woaah!
Colin:
Amazing.
Dan:
This is a species of fish that generates a weak electric field to sense things around it. But if you're in a busy urban area, what can sometimes happen when you are trying to connect to a mobile network?
Tom:
Yeah, you have two or three people with the same Wi-Fi access points on the same frequency. They have to negotiate with each other and pick frequencies.
Dan:
And the word you were so close with, Tom, was 'channels'.
Tom:
Channel hopping.
Dan:
Then you went streaming. And that was very funny.
Tom:
Then I went streaming. 'Cause I found the joke.
Dan:
Yep.
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
If two such fish meet, their electrical signals can interfere like that, with one another, if they generate the same frequency so they can't navigate. So to get around this, one fish can shift its frequency upward while the other shifts it downwards.
And this behaviour is known as jamming avoidance response. And it was discovered in 19—
Tom:
That's jarring.
Dan:
(wheezes)
Colin:
(chuckles) Wow.
Karen:
Oh my god. (laughs)
Tom:
Okay, look, this is the pun question, okay? This is the pun question.
Karen:
It's really good.
Dan:
The effect was discovered in 1963 when researchers found that Eigenmannia fish could shift their frequencies by more than 6 Hz if needed.
And the genus honours the ichthyologist, fish studier, Carl Eigenmann.
Colin:
Ahh.
Karen:
Oh, wow.
Dan:
And I will say this: I like some food fish. I like Japanese poems. This is a hake-ku.
SFX:
(Karen and Colin wheeze)
Tom:
Thank you to Juli for sending in this question.
There is a 3-metre concrete sphere, weighing over seven tonnes, on a beach on the Icelandic island of Grímsey. Why is it there, and why is it moved once a year?
I'll say that again.
There is a 3-metre concrete sphere, weighing over seven tonnes, on a beach on the Icelandic island of Grímsey. Why is it there, and why is it moved once a year?
Dan:
Big balls.
SFX:
(Tom and Colin laugh)
Colin:
There's one on the other side of the island.
Dan:
Oh!
Colin:
Okay, so...
Dan:
Is it a giant map pin? It is the top of a giant map pin
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
that is stuck in, once a year.
Karen:
(wheezes)
Colin:
Painted bright red so you can see it from space.
Dan:
Yeah, you are here.
Karen:
I was gonna say paperweight or like an island weight.
Colin:
The fact that it's moved once a year. I mean, you know, my brain was originally thinking, fell off a, I don't know, a shipping vessel or somehow managed to wash— Concrete, you know, famous for floating, of course.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Colin:
But... The fact that it's moved once a year means it seems quite intentional.
Dan:
There are two reasons why you move something. One, to put it somewhere new each time; or two, to put it back somewhere where it should have been. Because it has moved and should go back. And for some reason, I feel like it's that second one.
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Ooh.
Dan:
Is it being put back somewhere?
Colin:
Like the tides are moving in, you mean?
Karen:
Yeah, like lunar...
Dan:
Iceland is a very volcanic place. Has it been— Has it moved somewhere?
Karen:
Plugging a hole.
Dan:
(laughs)
Colin:
Oh dear.
Dan:
It's stopping a volcano from erupting.
SFX:
(Tom and Colin laugh)
Karen:
Well, there's a lot of geothermal activity, right? So it could be, ah.
Tom:
You are getting close with a few of these answers. So I'm gonna let you think about it for a while. But...
Colin:
Yeah.
Tom:
I would focus on map pin. Not in the literal sense, but I think that was pretty close. And also... it's not moved. But something else has.
Colin:
Is it moved by glacier action periodically? And the goal is to see how far it's moved each year or something like that?
Karen:
Ohhh!
Colin:
Or perhaps volcanic, I suppose, could...
Dan:
The other thing that Iceland does is Iceland is splitting itself in two. It's got the two continental plates: the Eurasian plate and the North American plate.
So is it something to do with that splitting apart and it's like a measurement of, oh, this is how far America and Europe have drifted apart?
Karen:
Like a country marker or a border marker.
Dan:
And you use your really big telescope from the shore of New York and from Ireland to look at it.
Colin:
Right, it's— Let's just state the obvious here. It's very large and very heavy.
Tom:
Yes.
Colin:
For a reason. It's not—
Karen:
Yeah.
Colin:
They could get a tiny piece of, you know, GPS equipment if they just needed to measure precise location, right? It's, there's some physicality to this thing.
SFX:
(Colin and Karen sigh)
Karen:
Where... Iceland.
Dan:
What would you do with a giant spherical concrete ball?
Tom:
Karen, what did you just say there?
Karen:
Why Iceland?
Tom:
Why Iceland?
Karen:
Iceland? Well, where are you? I mean, you could be your... Like Daniel said, there's the North America and the Europe thing. There's also...
Tom:
Yeah, there's only a few countries where you could do this.
Karen:
Oh, interesting. Arctic? Maybe it's— Arctic?
Colin:
Is it the location of true north? Or versus the magnetic north rather? Is it like the poles related to the magnetic pole?
Tom:
That would be a bit too far north there.
Colin:
Yeah.
Karen:
Yeah.
Tom:
What did you say, Karen?
Karen:
Arctic. Arctic.
Colin:
The Arctic 'line'.
Karen:
Circle.
Tom:
Yes.
Karen:
Arctic 'line'! Aaah!
Tom:
That's the key words we're looking for. So, what could that be for?
Karen:
Why would you move it?
Colin:
Yeah, or is it being moved? It's you, put it there to mark. Is it for shipping, or, I mean...
Tom:
It is art. I'll tell you this. You've got the first part of the question.
Dan:
Okay. So it's a sphere—
Tom:
It's art to mark... the location of the Arctic Circle.
Colin:
Ahh.
Karen:
Wow!
Tom:
Because, and having, many years ago, filmed something to do with this... there is only a tiny bit of Iceland that is actually above the Arctic Circle. It's a very small area. It is one bit of one island and some rocks that are still poking above the water, but won't in a few years. That's it.
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Is the sphere rolling along the Arctic Circle? Like, oh... With time, ah... as the Earth moves?
Dan:
Well, the pole of the Earth doesn't quite stay still.
Colin:
Right.
Dan:
It has a bit of a wobble.
Karen:
Oh.
Tom:
Yes it does.
Dan:
Because the... internal bit of the Earth moves about a bit. The axis about which the Earth rotates moves very slightly.
Tom:
Yes!
Dan:
And so does that change where the Arctic Circle is?
Karen:
Ohh.
Tom:
Yes, it does! By roughly 14 or 15 meters per year.
Colin:
Mm.
Karen:
Oh, wow.
Colin:
Not insignificant.
Tom:
Not insignificant.
Karen:
That's a big wobble.
Tom:
It is a big enough wobble that by 2047, the Arctic Circle will have left Iceland entirely.
Dan:
Oh, it's moving away from Iceland. Oh!
Tom:
It's moving away. So every year—
Colin:
Slow motion runaway.
Tom:
Once a year, they roll the boulder or move the boulder to the new position. And by about 2047, it will just be sat on the shoreline waiting for the Arctic Circle to return.
Colin:
Wow.
Karen:
I'm gonna cry.
Colin:
I know.
Tom:
(laughs)
Karen:
This is a A24 movie. Oh my gosh.
Colin:
Oh my goodness.
Tom:
It is an artwork called Orbus et Globus.
Dan:
And they never have to clean any moss off of that rolling stone, do they?
Tom:
Eyyy!
Colin:
Eheyy!
SFX:
(Karen and Colin laugh)
Tom:
Colin, whenever you're ready, give us you question.
Colin:
Here we go.
This question has been sent in by David Sansom. For his partner's safety, and his own comfort, David puts on a pair of glasses. However, these glasses completely block his view ahead. How do they help?
Again.
For his partner's safety, and his own comfort, David puts on a pair of glasses. However, these glasses completely block his view ahead. How do they help?
Karen:
Cyclops. He's a cyclops.
Colin:
I will tell you outright, it is not Cyclops.
Karen:
He's not an X-Man.
Colin:
It is not Cyclops or Cyclops-related. No, no.
Tom:
His safety— No. His partner's safety and his comfort. Okay.
Colin:
That's right. Doing both, I would say in that order.
Tom:
Lasers!
Dan:
Oh?
Tom:
Lasers!
Karen:
Yeah.
Tom:
Because...
Karen:
Cyclops!
Tom:
If you're working with high-powered laser— There is a standard joke warning symbol, which is, "Do not look into laser with remaining eye".
SFX:
(guests guffawing)
Tom:
For both safety and comfort. You, I mean, you would use particular goggles at a particular frequency, but...
Dan:
But, it was, hang on. It was the partner's. Was it the partner's safety?
Colin:
Yes.
Karen:
Personal comfort.
Colin:
You could certainly work with lasers solo. This task is very much about the relationship between the glasses wearer and the partner. This task— You could still accomplish it without these.
Karen:
Oh, okay.
Colin:
Without these glasses. However, it would not be as comfortable.
Tom:
Would it be less impressive? Welcome to a question where Tom just throws out a series of things where someone needs to be blindfolded. Knife throwing act!
Colin:
Ooh, ooh, ooh. I don't think it's that type of assist, right?
Tom:
Argh!
Colin:
They are certainly special. You know, they're not like the glasses I'm wearing right now. I don't know that it's more impressive, less impressive. It's more just... more comfortable if you are in the person... in David's position. The partner comfort, not affected.
Karen:
Wow. But it safety. It's like, why would I— Okay, why would I—
Colin:
Yeah, yeah.
Karen:
So Colin, why would I protect you? Why would I protect you by wearing something on my face? What is the situation to protect you, that I put something on my face?
Colin:
I think you've got two good questions there, Karen, and focus on the first, is: what are some scenarios where you have a partner, and you are, in whole or part, responsible for their safety?
Dan:
I'm not sure that the partner is human. I'm getting horsey vibes.
Colin:
(blurts laugh)
Tom:
Oh, we've...
Karen:
Ohh!
Tom:
We've had this before. This group has had this before, where we've forgotten to check that everyone in the question is human.
Dan:
Is it like a horse or an animal?
Colin:
They are both humans. Let's get it outta the way.
SFX:
(guessers groaning)
Karen:
I thought we cracked the code!
Dan:
I'm obsessed with animals this week.
Colin:
Sorry to disappoint. They are both humans in this type of scenario.
Karen:
Is— Would one person be like a child? Or are they saying partner as in... you know, spouse, partner, relationship partner?
Colin:
Oh, interesting. That's a good question.
I would say this would apply equally to adult, child, partner, romantic, not life partner. Yep, yep. Two humans. And you would still have the same— You'd still have the same requirement for partner safety as stated in the question. And, this tool, you know, as I say, you don't need it.
Certainly this activity was done before the invention of this— of these glasses.
Karen:
Oh, could they be playing... Could they be playing... a game or an activity that requires glasses, like a laser tag or a paintball situation?
Dan:
Oh?
Colin:
Hmm. It is very low technology.
Karen:
Oh.
Colin:
I would say, yeah. It does not involve... It does not involve batteries or powered source. It is low technology.
Karen:
Ah, interesting.
Colin:
Slthough David, although his view ahead is blocked as the question noted... David can still see.
Dan:
Sorta, okay. So either, either peripheral or they're sort of reverse goggles. And you can see behind you.
Tom:
It is Orpheus in the underworld, and he's not allowed to look back. But if he just uses some mirrors, I, no.
Colin:
Mmm.
Tom:
What do you mean, "mm"?!
Karen:
He should have done that.
SFX:
(Colin and Dan laugh)
Colin:
He should. Karen's giving notes here on mythology. You know what he should have done. David and his partner are gradually getting further apart.
Dan:
Is one of them on the North Atlantic plate, one of them on the Eurasian plate?
SFX:
(Tom and Colin laugh)
Dan:
Slowly drifting apart from tectonic motion.
Tom:
What requires you to only have peripheral vision for checking on safety?
Colin:
Peripheral, certainly one direction. If you can't see ahead.
Tom:
You've got some sort of mirror reflection thing?
Colin:
Hmm? You're sniffing on it here, maybe a little bit. Low tech. Low tech. What are some low tech ways of affecting your vision, perhaps?
Karen:
Oh, fisheye, wide lens.
Dan:
Mirrors.
Karen:
Mirrors.
Colin:
Okay, okay.
Karen:
Glass?
Colin:
If his partner makes a mistake, David needs to be ready. David needs to be ready to jump into action here.
Karen:
Infrared? Night vision?
Dan:
That's quite high tech, isn't it?
Colin:
Oh, very high tech, no power source. Yep, yep. I'm feeling like it's a...
Tom:
a sport or a circus skill or something like that. Like the partner is in danger.
Colin:
Yes.
Tom:
If something goes— You said, for their safety. But it's not because David is throwing something or causing the danger. David is the spotter.
Colin:
Yes.
Tom:
David is there.
Dan:
A human cannonball? You wouldn't be able to see ahead with your human cannonball, really, would you?
Colin:
This can be done outside circus environs, but you are right on, you are spot on. Pun intended, Tom, that they're the spotter. They're keeping visual eye on their partner who as noted is getting further away. They're connected somehow, David and his partner.
Dan:
So going up?
Colin:
Okay.
Karen:
Skydiving?
Tom:
If you're getting further away from your tandem person, something's gone wrong.
Karen:
That's bad.
SFX:
(Dan and Colin laugh)
Dan:
Ooh, I'm carrying a lot less weight than I was 30 seconds ago.
Colin:
What sport can people engage in, where you are moving up, away from your partner, your partner is somehow connected to you?
Dan:
Climbing.
Colin:
Okay, yes.
Dan:
Sports— Well, but rock climbing.
Colin:
Uh-huh. Yep, yep.
Dan:
So you would be belaying your partner.
Colin:
Exactly.
Dan:
So, but so, so, is your view obscured because you've got the rock in front of you, and you just can't see?
Colin:
(laughs)
Dan:
Is that what is going on?
Colin:
As the belayer, your primary job is to look up at the climber and watch their motion, make sure they're making safe motions, and importantly, be ready to act if they fall.
Dan:
If they drop, you stop them.
Colin:
Yeah. So how can I do this while remaining comfortable? Maybe you're up on the rock for a long time.
Tom:
Oh?
Colin:
What comfort issue might I face?
Tom:
You're gonna be craning your neck upwards for a long time.
Colin:
(laughs) Yeah.
Karen:
Oh, is it like a...
Dan:
So it must be a pair of goggles where you're looking ahead, your neck. You are just standing like a normal person. But there 90 degrees, you— it looks up. Like half a periscope, essentially.
Karen:
Like a periscope!
Colin:
You have got it. Right on.
These are incredible glasses. I've never seen anything like this before. Amazing.
So, David is rock climbing as noted with a partner on a belay, as you said, Dan. So the partner's up on the rock. David has to keep an eye on them. Now, normally in the old days, I know you have to look up. But you know, as Tom noted, your neck's gonna crick. These are special glasses with prisms.
So David is looking straight ahead, neck level, head level, but the view he is seeing is straight up the rock wall, at his partner up in the air. So yeah, you don't have to suffer from, you know, belayer's neck. I guess, you know, if we're gonna name the condition.
Karen:
I love the low tech solution. Like it's just, it's so simple. You're like, oh yeah. Oh, beautiful.
Dan:
It's "so obvious" in hindsight.
Karen:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dan:
Or should that be sideways sight these days with the mirrors?
Tom:
Which just leaves us with the question sent in at the start by James Tween.
Why have several people added an extra verse to a 1959 song that was already difficult to perform?
Any guesses from the panel?
Colin:
I have a guess.
Dan:
Not a clue.
Karen:
Not a clue. I thought at first it was happy birthday, but yeah.
Tom:
Colin has a guess.
Colin:
Alright, here we go. I'll air it all out. So I have a daughter. She is seven. Not too long ago, she was learning the alphabet song. And I learned that many people have added a little bit extra to the alphabet song to make it easier to sing for children in particular, around the LMNO sequence.
But I don't know if that counts as an extra verse. It's my only hesitation.
Tom:
It's not the alphabet, but, oh, you're close, Colin. You're very close.
Karen:
I mean, it could be in the similar vein where you're listing a bunch of things, right? You're listing letters.
Tom:
It is a list song and a patter song.
Karen:
Like a states or a country, and they had to change up or update.
Tom:
Yep.
Karen:
Why would— Oh!
Dan:
A new country, a new...
Tom:
It is humorous and educational, and the new version has 16 more things since 1959.
Karen:
Is it the Animaniacs... Wakko's world countries song?
Tom:
That has been updated by several people. That's not this one. Again, 1959.
Karen:
1959.
Colin:
1959, 1959.
Dan:
Nothing happened in 1959!
Colin:
(laughs flatly)
Dan:
Except this one important thing.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Karen:
See space, planets.
Tom:
Definitely science.
Dan:
Element— The Elements Song!
Colin:
Elements!
Karen:
Elements!
Tom:
Yes! Tom Lehrer's song "Elements", which lists all the chemicals in the periodic table to the tune of "The Major-General's Song". It was written in 1959.
The existence of more elements has been confirmed. Various songwriters, including Helen Arney, have added additional lines to keep the song current. And the 16 added elements are:
Lawrencium, Meitnerium, Darmstadtium, Seaborgium, Roentgenium, Dubnium, Flerovium, and Bohrium, Copernicium, Livermorium, Hassium, Rutherfordium, Oganesson, Tennessine, Moscovium, and Nihonium.
(grunts)
SFX:
(guests applauding)
Tom:
That was absolutely take one.
Dan:
You're in your element, Tom.
Tom:
Eyyy!
Karen:
Eyyy!
Colin:
Heyyy!
Tom:
It is The Elements Song.
Thank you to all of our players. Where can people find you? What's going on in your lives?
We will start today with Karen.
Karen:
Hello! You can find us on GoodJobBrain.com, home of the trivia, pop trivia podcast, and also on available on other major podcast apps.
Tom:
Colin, what kind of things you've been talking about there lately?
Colin:
We just had a great segment from our co-host, not here, Chris, about the number one through number ten kitchen-related injuries, which was fun and enlightening and gruesome. I mean, you know, you got your burns and you got your cuts, but you can injure yourself in some surprisingly novel ways, in the average household kitchen.
Tom:
And Dan Peake, what's going on with you?
Dan:
I stream on Twitch a couple of evenings a week, various games and puzzles. Search for quizzydan on Twitch, and I'm on YouTube there as well.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. There are episodes in full video every week on Spotify, and you can find us on YouTube, TikTok, and basically everywhere at @lateralcast.
Thank you very much to Dan Peake.
Dan:
Good day.
Tom:
Colin Felton.
Colin:
Cheers, everybody.
Tom:
Karen Chu.
Karen:
Alright, alright, alright.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Kell, David Sansom, Ian B., James Tween, Robert Matte, Isaiah, Juli |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |