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Episode 171: Duck on expenses
16th January, 2026 • Ella Hubber, Caroline Roper and Tom Lum from 'Let's Learn Everything!' face questions about problematic pictures, identical items and whale wax.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom Scott:
Why might Danish hikers start counting cases of beer for their own safety?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
On today's show, we have the crew from Let's Learn Everything!
Caroline:
Woo!
Ella:
Woo!
Tom Lum:
Woo!
Caroline:
Yeah!
Ella:
Yeah!
Tom Scott:
Who have been on this show so many times that they are basically now staff. Except we don't pay them, and they keep wandering off with our stationery. Last week, they did hand in a document entitled the 'LLE Workers Charter', demanding emotional support toys, snack breaks, and quote, "at least one question about something normal."
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
They formed a picket line outside the studio, made entirely of fun facts, which is honestly not as intimidating as they think it is.
Caroline:
(blurts chortle) Oh, oh!
SFX:
(Ella and Tom Lum wheeze)
Tom Scott:
Nonetheless, they've shown up for their unpaid shift today, and we couldn't be happier. So first of all, please welcome back to the show, Tom Lum!
Tom Lum:
Hey hey, ho ho. Sloths have more than seven vertebrae in their neck, which is abnormal for a mammal.
Tom Scott:
(wheezes)
Caroline:
Wow, okay, yeah.
Tom Scott:
I appreciate the yes-anding so much, Tom! How are you doing?
Tom Lum:
Good, good, oh yeah. I mean, you set me up for... two all of my favorite things: workers' rights, as well as science fun facts. Doing great.
Tom Scott:
Also joining us, Ella Hubber. We should probably plug the podcast for new listeners to ours. What is Let's Learn Everything?
Ella:
Hey hey, ho ho. Female kangaroos have three vaginas! Male kangaroos have a double-headed penis! Er, and the podcast—
SFX:
(Caroline and Ella laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
They're all animal facts!
Ella:
But those are the best ones. And the podcast is called Let's Learn Everything. We learn about anything and everything interesting, such as the facts that we've just told you.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
That's true.
Tom Scott:
I should also ask, how's the podcast going? 'Cause we have you on here regularly. Things seem to be going well for you and the team.
Ella:
Brilliantly and, a large part thanks to this podcast, because we get a big filter over.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
There's a good overlap.
Tom Scott:
I believe that's in both directions as well, because I'm pretty sure we get some of your listeners too. I know at least one person has said, "Oh, I found you through Let's Learn Everything." So that has been— it's worked well.
Ella:
We love helping small creators out, you know.
Tom Lum:
(wheezes)
Caroline:
(guffaws)
Tom Lum:
Fellow Toms.
Tom Scott:
(cracks up) I can't follow that. Sorry.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Ella:
(snickers)
Tom Scott:
Which brings me to the... final third. That sounds like the wrong adjective. The other third— That's a worse adjective. The last but not least, Caroline Roper. Welcome back to the show.
Caroline:
Hey hey, ho, ho. My coworkers have set the bar far too high and I can't and I can't think of a fun fact fast enough to commit to the bit, so we're doing this instead.
Tom Lum:
Oh no, they're sub-unionizing!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
What sort of stuff have you been researching on the show lately?
Caroline:
Oh my goodness. We have had topics like... chemistry of computers and the Great Moon Hoax of 1835, all smooshed together into one podcast episode as well. So they are truly quite a chaotic time for us over on the pod— Let's Learn Everything podcast.
Tom Scott:
Which conveniently is also a description of whenever you three are on this podcast. So, very best of luck... frankly, to all of us today.
Solidarity for the union, but we do have work to do. So let's begin today's labour with question one.
Thank you to Meggie for this question.
In disc golf, what is a 'brown ace'?
I'll say that again.
In disc golf, what is a 'brown ace'?
Ella:
I have an immediate thought, and I'm gonna— and I'm actually— It's a joke, but I think it could be true. So I'm worried about saying it.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Ella:
I'm gonna say it.
Caroline:
(wheezes)
Ella:
Hitting the butthole.
Tom Scott:
(delayed laughs) Could you explain...
Ella:
With the disc?
Tom Scott:
I was gonna say explain disc golf, but I'm gonna rephrase the question. Could you explain what you understand disc golf to be?
Ella:
Actually, I was—
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
Actually, now that you say it, I was thinking it was like Frisbee. Like, what's it called?
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Ella:
It is like Frisbee, right?
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
But I believe you throw it into a hole at the end.
Ella:
Yeah, so—
Caroline:
Wow, okay. Creating a completely different image to what I had in my head.
Ella:
Hit someone in the ass with the Frisbee.
Tom Scott:
What was your image, Caroline?
Caroline:
No, my image was literally like golf, but with little discs, and you have to hit it in the right way, and it'll go— like you're skimming, but with golf clubs, which that's... yeah.
Tom Lum:
Ohh.
Tom Scott:
There are I think a lot of courses in the US, perhaps not so much in the rest of the world. But this is a game on the scale of regular golf, but you are throwing what are... formally called 'flying discs' and informally referred to as Frisbees.
Tom Lum:
Ahhh.
Caroline:
Nice.
Ella:
So not hitting the butthole with a disc.
Tom Scott:
Why...?
Ella:
(wheezes) Brown?
Tom Scott:
No, no.
Caroline:
Why'd your brain immediately go there?
Tom Lum:
So another— so I also— I love that this is just like... a nomenclature in a niche. There's no riddles here. Maybe there are some tricks, but this is just like, "what's this little fun fact?"
Caroline:
Mmh.
Tom Lum:
I do know for our disc golf, I don't know if this is relevant, but instead of a hole the size of a golf ball or a disc... It's this standing thing that has like chains coming down it, so that it catches it, sort of like a curtain would catch the— and then it lands into a little tray. So it's easier to hit than—
Tom Scott:
Yeah, it's called a basket.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah.
Tom Scott:
It's a chain-shaped basket about maybe two— metre and a half, two metres off the ground.
Tom Lum:
And so that's— I don't know if that's relevant. Brown ace. My first guess is like, it goes into the dirt somehow, and then still... is score. I don't know. An ace is also interesting.
Caroline:
Because surely if it's a Frisbee-shaped thing, they can do a little bit of... up and down manoeuvring whilst they're travelling, can't they?
Tom Scott:
Mhm. Yeah.
Caroline:
Is it like an instance where it has come down, maybe touched the ground in some capacity, and then still managed to come back up and then get into the... into the basket, I guess?
Tom Scott:
I think I'd start with concentrating more on what Tom said, which was like aces. What might a regular ace be?
Tom Lum:
You've also made me so paranoid of say— as if saying "Frisbee" is gonna cost this podcast $5 every time we say it, as opposed to circular disc.
SFX:
(others laughing)
Ella:
A hole-in-one, I would assume was the name.
Tom Lum:
That's my guess.
Tom Scott:
Yes, that's right.
Tom Lum:
Okay, okay.
Caroline:
Okay.
Ella:
So a brown... (sighs) Damn.
Tom Lum:
I'm thinking like a brownout with electricity. So it could be something like...
Caroline:
Mm.
Tom Lum:
you don't see it maybe? A hole-in-one where... the dirt, it's in— the hole is in the ground where... it hits a grizzly bear?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
Where...
Tom Scott:
So... not grizzly bear. And Ella...
Tom Lum:
I'm sorry.
Tom Scott:
Not butthole.
Ella:
No. Well...
Tom Lum:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
But...
Tom Lum:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
You are thinking along the right lines here.
Caroline:
It doesn't hit a tree and bounce, does it?
Ella:
Oh, yeah. Bounces off a tree into the basket.
Tom Scott:
That wouldn't really be an ace though.
Ella:
Why would it not be an ace? What— in what— Isn't one— one throw, right, is an ace, rather than—
Tom Scott:
Mhm.
Ella:
Or is there a rule in disc golf If it hits something?
Tom Scott:
It's a hole-in-one, sort of.
Tom Lum:
One's butt.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella crack up)
Tom Lum:
Tom, I also fully— I misheard you when you said "not grizzly bear". I thought your enunciation was "not grizzly bear".
Tom Scott:
Oh, no, no, no, no.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
Oh, you mean a black bear!
Tom Lum:
(snickers)
Tom Scott:
Where do you normally find disc golf courses?
Ella:
In the woods? On the beach?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, maybe more in forests or I guess on reg— possibly in regular golf courses. I know they're sometimes hilly because that's interesting. 'Cause you can go up and down a little bit with discs. Maybe In forests.
Tom Scott:
It's mostly in public parks.
Tom Lum:
Oh, okay.
Caroline:
Oh, interesting.
Ella:
Is it into the bin? Is it into—
Tom Scott:
Yes it is, Ella!
Ella:
Ohh!
Caroline:
Ohh!
Tom Lum:
Whoa! Great shout.
Caroline:
Oh, well done.
Tom Scott:
Yes. A brown ace is when your first shot does indeed hit a hole-in-one. It's just really not the hole you were looking for, and it goes straight into the bin.
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
There is also a black ace, which is a hole-in-one on the wrong basket – so a different hole – and a gray ace, which is correct hole, wrong basket, because courses can have multiple baskets on the same hole and all things like this. But a brown ace is you have thrown your disc in the bin.
Ella, we will go to you for the next question please.
Ella:
Someone made two magnets featuring Jimmy Carr and Jim Gaffigan. How did it help their domestic life?
I'll say that again.
Someone made two magnets featuring Jimmy Carr and Jim Gaffigan. How did it help their domestic life?
Tom Lum:
My first instinct is this is like a... one of those... snake coloration mnemonics, where it's like, "If you're Jimmy's Carr, go straight to the bar. If you're Jimmy's Gaffigan, you're sure gonna laugh again."
Tom Scott:
I... am going to step out of this one.
Tom Lum:
Oh my god.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Ella:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
Not because I have heard this before.
Tom Lum:
'Cause I don't like the question.
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Because I have a philosophical objection to Jimmy Carr! Because I'm gonna write down a word that I think is...
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
I think my brain solved this, and I'm gonna write down a word, and I'm gonna stay out of it.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Ella:
Okay. Oh, interesting.
Caroline:
Okay. That's interesting.
Ella:
We might have removed a helpful person there for knowing...
Tom Scott:
If this is wrong, you can all roundly mock me for my hubris.
Tom Lum:
Oh yay!
Caroline:
Perfect. Wonderful.
Ella:
And I hope you're wrong. Okay, come on guys.
Caroline:
My brain immediately goes to, there's this couple on TikTok who, when they're having an argument, they enter therapist mode. Or was it therapist mode, or was it like legal counsel mode, where they both put a little hood on, and pretend that they are not themselves, and they present the arguments very neutrally to each other.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline laugh)
Caroline:
And did— so they— do they personify these two people? That would be rough, wouldn't it?
Tom Lum:
I think Freud said, described, you had the id, the ego, the Carr, and the Gaffigan, right?
SFX:
(others laughing)
Ella:
Nice.
Tom Lum:
Caroline, can I get your help? Is Jimmy Carr... is, I think, is a British... celebrity?
Tom Scott:
Yeah, he's very well known.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Is Jim Gaffigan an American? I believe?
Ella:
Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Is that— I'm wondering if that's the distinction, where it's like you have a British Jim, and you have an American Jim. Or is this a fake out, and does the Jim not matter?
Caroline:
Ahhh.
Ella:
The Jim doesn't matter.
Tom Lum:
Really? Okay!
Caroline:
Ooh!
Tom Lum:
Good, good, good. Get that outta the way.
Ella:
The people do matter, though. Knowing what they do is important.
Caroline:
They're both comedians, right? Right? (breathes shakily)
Tom Scott:
If they're not, I'm in trouble.
Caroline:
Do they take the two magnets every time they're having a little fight, and they magnet them together to make them kiss? And then it makes them want to have a little smooch and makes everything better?
Ella:
The dome— improving their domestic life part of this is nothing to do with arguing. Although I reckon this thing could cause arguing, but it's not to do with arguing.
Tom Lum:
Is it like a chore assignment thing? Or like on the laundry? Oh, oh, on the dishwasher, if it needs to be loaded in or out, would— is a common thing that I feel like you could have a marker for.
Tom Scott:
I'm gonna throw the word 'dishwashers' up. It's on my page.
Caroline:
(gasps loudly)
Ella:
Yeah, okay.
Tom Lum:
(imitates klaxons)
Ella:
If we have two, fine. We— fine, dishwasher. I'll let you have it, but then let's take it further. Why— What are these magnets doing?
Caroline:
Are they going into the machine? Or are they going on the outside of the machine?
Ella:
They're going on the outside of the machine.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Ah, okay.
Tom Lum:
My assumption is it's like ready to take out versus ready to put stuff to load in. And I'm trying to think what the pun is.
Ella:
You're right. But why?
Tom Scott:
I think if I'm right, Ella, the pun requires... knowing their work perhaps?
Ella:
Yes, exactly.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Ella:
Maybe— I actually wrote— just in case we got to this point, I wrote down some other examples of comedians I would put on the magnets.
Tom Scott:
Mm.
Caroline:
Oh, okay.
Ella:
So instead of Jim Gaffigan, I might put Bob Hope or Jerry Seinfeld. And instead of Jimmy Carr, I might put George Carlin or Kathy Griffin. Does any of those help? Or are you too young?
Tom Lum:
No.
Caroline:
I fear.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
I just— I'm trying to figure out what the commonality is. Oh, stand-up? Oh, stand-up! Oh, oh, oh!
Ella:
They are stand-up comedians.
Tom Lum:
Are they all stand-ups or only some of them?
Ella:
They're all stand-up comedians.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Ella:
They have a style of stand-up comedy.
Tom Lum:
Observational versus... Oh man.
Ella:
If you're putting something in the dishwasher, or you're taking it out, what does that mean for the dishes in the dishwasher?
Caroline:
Clean versus—
Tom Lum:
Clean— Oh! Clean humor versus none!
Caroline:
(sighs)
Tom Lum:
Ohhh! Oh!
Ella:
Exactly, exactly that. The magnets are to indicate if the dishwasher is dirty or clean.
So user IRMasheneer made an online post titled, "My partner made clean and dirty dishwasher magnets. Guess which is which?"
The relevant magnet is placed on the dishwasher to indicate its status.
British comedian Jimmy Carr is famous for pushing boundaries of taste in his routines. He's a 'dirty' comedian. I guess you could call him. I probably wouldn't. I'd just say he's unnecessarily controversial.
Tom Scott:
He makes dirty jokes.
Caroline:
Mhm.
Ella:
Yeah. Jim Gaffigan is an American stand-up comedian who makes general observations about fatherhood and everyday life. He's generally regarded as a 'clean' comedian, using no to little profanity.
Tom Scott:
And the only reason I got that early is because I went around someone's house the other day, and they have not those magnets, but they have a 'clean' and 'dirty' magnet specifically built to be two-sided.
Caroline:
Nice.
Tom Scott:
And something... It was when it said, make your domestic life easier, my brain just went clunk, clunk, clunk, so... you do not get to mock me for my hubris. I'm sorry.
Caroline:
Aw, boo.
Ella:
Naw!
Tom Lum:
(laughs) We'll do that off-air. Don't worry. Another good one is, you could do Bob Saget in Full House, and then Bob Saget in his stand-up career. (wheezes)
Tom Scott:
(laughs) Yes!
Ella:
I do not understand that reference. And— But you didn't get any of the comedians I said.
SFX:
(Tom Lum and Caroline laugh uproariously)
Tom Lum:
Sorry. Yeah, you can find out when— what year and where I was born, based on that joke, yeah.
Caroline:
Yeah.
SFX:
(both Toms laugh)
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Frank Mutter for this question, and to Cameron L, who sent in a similar idea.
Jemma buys a rubber duck, places it beside her computer workstation, and submits the receipt for expenses. Why does she have a reasonable chance of being reimbursed?
I'll give you that one more time.
Jemma buys a rubber duck, places it beside her computer workstation, and submits the receipt for expenses. Why does she have a reasonable chance of being reimbursed?
Ella:
I've got a guess that the rubber duck isn't a literal rubber duck. It's some kind of...
Caroline:
Boo. I want it to be.
Ella:
Why are you booing me?
Caroline:
Boo!
SFX:
(both chuckling)
Caroline:
The rubber duck's real.
Tom Scott:
I'm normally the one that gets booed around here.
SFX:
(Ella and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
Is this not related to the concept of talking to a rubber duck in like computer science, which is a thing, which is like when you have a problem, you talk to a rubber duck, to sort of like... make yourself think it out, out loud, as opposed to staying in your mind?
Ella:
Oh?
Tom Lum:
So I'm like, is this just like...
Caroline:
Is it... an emotional support rubber duck is what I'm hearing?
Tom Scott:
Yes!
Caroline:
Oh!
Tom Scott:
Tom, you know the concept?
Tom Lum:
Yes. Is it— so is it just that be— if she does this and says it out loud to a rubber duck, it's more likely to be correct?
Tom Scott:
So, this is a concept called rubber duck debugging. Have you heard those words? It feels like you're vaguely familiar with this, Tom.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
You just don't sound confident about it.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, I, well, that's how many years it's been since I was doing software development, is exactly how I'm confident. You can again, triangulate how long it's been.
Tom Scott:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
But yeah, is that what we're talking about?
Tom Scott:
Yes, this is exactly what we're talking about. What's the process?
Tom Lum:
You just talk through your problem to a rubber duck, and as you're saying it and— or explaining or walking through the process, you sometimes find the answer you're looking for?
Tom Scott:
Yes. This was popularised by the 1999 book The Pragmatic Programmer, which popularised the image of a developer keeping a toy duck on their desk for exactly that reason.
Why might she be able to get that reimbursed then?
Ella:
Because she's using it for work.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yeah. It's genuinely helpful as a work thing, particularly because it helps the developer, what might also stop?
Caroline:
Distracting your coworkers?
Tom Scott:
Yes!
Caroline:
Or taking up someone else's time?
Tom Lum:
What?
Tom Scott:
Exactly right. That's the last thing I wanted.
Caroline:
Wow!
Tom Scott:
Because you are frustrated with this thing. It isn't working, it isn't working. But the minute you go over and pull someone else over from their desk...
Tom Lum:
Oh!
Tom Scott:
Magically it will work. Because you have to explain it to someone. That's the point of the rubber duck, is it is someone you have to explain it to before you go and get a coworker.
Caroline:
Maybe I should get a rubber duck.
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Ella laugh)
Caroline:
I am a distracting entity in my office, so...
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
If you're worried someone's gonna start a podcast, yeah, just get them a rubber duck, and then...
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
Tom, whenever you're ready, it's your question.
Tom Lum:
This question has been sent in by Selena from Brisbane.
Mary acquires fish scales, a narwhal tusk, and earwax from a blue whale. Why?
I'll say that again.
SFX:
(both Toms crack up)
Tom Lum:
Mary acquires fish scales, a narwhal tusk, and earwax from a blue whale. Why?
Tom Scott:
Why did you put so much nasal emphasis on the 'why' there?
Ella:
"Whyyy?"
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
It's just my favorite thing to turn statements into a riddle.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Lum:
It's doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Tom Scott:
We have list questions like this occasionally. It's like, "Here's three random objects. Good luck!"
Caroline:
Yeah. (laughs)
Ella:
Oh, okay. So a tusk— A narwhal tusk, fish scales, and earwax. My— I'm gonna go with carbon dating.
Tom Scott:
Ooh.
Ella:
That's all— you know, it's— these things store different amounts of carbon for different periods of time, and you can use that to age the whale.
Tom Scott:
Alright.
Caroline:
Ella really went in with an intelligent answer straight off the bat here.
Tom Scott:
Yep.
Caroline:
That's crazy.
Ella:
Was it?
Tom Scott:
Alright. I'm gonna go in with brewing. Because I know...
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
Fish scales are... or something extracted from them is used in some traditional brewing processes. The narwhal tusk and the earwax from a blue whale, those do not fit this. But I'm gonna assume there's some other part part of the brewing process in, I'm gonna say Svalbard, that includes those.
Caroline:
What?
Tom Scott:
Caroline, what are you going for?
Caroline:
I was gonna guess soap making as an immediate thing. Just because I feel like some of those things are used as like ingredients or to support with like, the sapon— to support the saponification process or something like that.
Tom Scott:
Oh, good word.
Caroline:
So that's where my brain went to. Thank you.
Tom Lum:
Guys, I am— have never been more delighted to not tell Ella she's correct right away, so that we could hear Tom's answer and then make fun of him.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Caroline:
(gasps loudly)
Tom Lum:
Ella was 100%— Well, you're 90% spot on. 'Cause it's not carbon dating. But when you said "age the whale".
Tom Scott:
Okay.
Ella:
Oh, it's to age the whale.
Tom Scott:
How do we age the whale?
Caroline:
Oh my goodness.
Ella:
I guess it's just by how... these things disintegrate at different rates in the whale. Like, a tooth is gonna go less quick?
Tom Lum:
Almost, almost.
Caroline:
Is it the other way? Is it like, the size of a tusk indicates the age of the animal? The number of scales, or the shape, or the wear, or something like that? The amount of ear wax?
Tom Lum:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, 'cause I was thinking these were all inside the stomach of some predator, and you were— but earwax doesn't make sense for that.
Caroline:
Ooh. Yeah.
Tom Lum:
You guys, I'm— You guys are almost entirely there. I'm just looking for a specific word. Similar— It's similar to...
Tom Scott:
Is it like tree rings or something like that?
Tom Lum:
It sure is.
Tom Scott:
How do you—
Ella:
What is a word for that?
Tom Lum:
It's just a very simple word. (wheezes)
Caroline:
Oh, growth or...
Tom Scott:
Age?
Tom Lum:
(mimes stacking)
Caroline:
Yeah.
Ella:
Layers.
Tom Lum:
There it is, yeah. That's it.
Ella:
Tom's doing— For those who only listen in audio, Tom was putting his hands on top of one another, like a stack.
Caroline:
Really helpful. (laughs)
Tom Scott:
They all grow in layers?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, I have to double check fish scales, but I did— I was more fascinated by narwhals and the earwax. But yes, these are all ways for scientists to determine the age of animals or estimate them.
So, there is a great paper called "Chronicles in Ivory: Estimating the Age of Narwhals" that talks about these "growth layer groups". But the earwax is the most interesting one. 'Cause that was one I was just like, "That's— Why is that even like a thing?" They are called earplugs, is what they're refer to— This is a paper from Smithsonian Mag. They say the density of the earwax that sits in the ear canal... is similar to the density of water. And so the ear wax actually helps them listen rather than block their ears.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
Huh.
Tom Lum:
Which is fascinating because they're underwater. And so in some ways, you want that, and it's at this point that I realized you were making me research an episode of our podcast, which is unfair. And this is exactly why we're unionizing, Tom!
SFX:
(others laughing)
Tom Lum:
So each of these things can be used to determine the age of the animals, similar to counting the rings on a tree trunk. For many mammals, growth or wear patterns in teeth as well as bone fusion patterns are also common ways of establishing age.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Jack Harding and many other people for this question, which is based on an Ólafur Waage video, who is also a regular on Lateral, so there's some overlap here.
Tourists in Iceland often upload photos with the location tag 'Gjaldskylda', even though these pictures were taken in completely different places. Why?
Tourists in Iceland often upload photos with the location tag 'Gjaldskylda', even though these pictures were taken in completely different places. Why?
Ella:
What does that mean, Tom? (blurts wheeze) (giggles) Is that...
Tom Lum:
My first thought... is like, this is like a default location. So this is just like a fun joke that you could... I'm thinking like, why you would want to do this.
Caroline:
My brain went to for the meme of it, you know.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Just like, yeah.
Tom Lum:
Oh, oh, oh, oh, wait. Hold on. I just have a hunch. I wanna get my own— see if I can—
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
There's been a lot of hunches this episode.
Tom Lum:
I know.
Tom Scott:
Some of them have turned out to be right, some of them have not.
Tom Lum:
Is this area a like miniature land? Similar to a Las Vegas, where there's lots of small versions of sites of the world. And so people go to the actual Pyramids of Giza, and tag it as this small land place as a joke.
Tom Scott:
Tom...
Tom Lum:
(preps celebration)
Tom Scott:
No.
Tom Lum:
(shouts)
SFX:
(others laugh uproariously)
Tom Lum:
As I was doing the gesture for "Yea", I went, "You fool!"
SFX:
(group laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
By your own joke!
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
Oh, n'oh, god. Why? Aw.
Tom Scott:
(cackles)
Tom Lum:
God. (whinnies)
Caroline:
Wow.
Ella:
Okay. And now that the ritual humiliation is done...
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Ella:
we can move towards the answer.
Caroline:
(continues laughing)
Ella:
Can you say the word again, please?
Tom Scott:
Gjaldsty— No, I can't! (laughs)
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
I'm glad you asked because no, I can't.
Tom Scott:
It actually... (sighs) Icelandic has very few things in common with English. This probably wouldn't help you.
Caroline:
Oh. (chuckles)
Tom Scott:
But it is Gjald—Gjaldskylda.
Ella:
Skil-tah. Gyalt-skil-tah.
Caroline:
And that is a location that people are tagging themselves at?
Ella:
It is an actual location?
Tom Lum:
Ooh, good question.
Ella:
Is it like, you know, on Google Maps... when you come across a... a crash or something site, and you put like you place, oh, there was all the police is here. There's a crash here that happened and report it. You know, they're reporting something, rather than saying they're in a location.
Caroline:
Mhm.
Tom Scott:
That is definitely getting closer.
Ella:
Ooh.
Caroline:
(gasps) Ooh.
Tom Scott:
But remember, they're uploading photos tagged with this location.
Ella:
The northern lights? The Aurora Borealis?
Tom Scott:
A lot closer with the reporting car crashes thing.
Caroline:
Aw.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
This does mostly happen with tourists travelling by car.
Tom Lum:
That's a good hint. Tourists by car traveling will...
Caroline:
Do they think they're at that location and are just wrong?
Ella:
(cackles)
Tom Scott:
Yeah, kind of.
Caroline:
Oh?
Tom Lum:
What? Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Caroline:
Oh! Interesting.
Tom Scott:
The tourists are absolutely in error.
Ella:
Ohhh.
Tom Lum:
Is this a— now, does that word translate— Oh, my— is— well— Is this like a translation error thing,
Tom Scott:
(nods)
Tom Lum:
where a sign— Okay. Does this— Do they go to a road sign that says something, but it's been mistranslated, and really it means like, "translation error"? I don't know, I'm circling around, but something like this, do you know what I mean?
Tom Scott:
Apart from "translation error", you're spot on.
Tom Lum:
Oh, okay.
Tom Scott:
You just haven't got the word itself, but you're right. This is a fairly common word if you're trave'ling to tourist destinations in Iceland by car.
Tom Lum:
Free parking?
Tom Scott:
The opposite, paid parking. But I'll give you that, Tom, particularly given earlier.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Scott:
'Gjaldskylda' is roughly translated 'pay to park'.
Caroline:
(wheezes) Oh, no!
Tom Scott:
Because you'll see that next to the phrase, 'pay to park', a significant number of tourists in Iceland will assume that is the name of wherever they happen to be.
Tom Lum:
Incredible.
Tom Scott:
So yes. Someone has created the location tag for it on Instagram or whatever.
And so there are photos from wildly different parts of Iceland: waterfalls, lava fields, beaches, car parks, or just Reykjavík suburbs tagged with 'Gjaldskylda'.
Caroline, we will head to you for the question, please.
Caroline:
This question has been sent in by Matthew Sherlip.
In 2008, resourceful police in Kanagawa, Japan used their Nintendo games console when trying to find a hit-and-run suspect. How?
One more time.
In 2008, resourceful police in Kanagawa, Japan used their Nintendo games console when trying to find a hit-and-run suspect. How?
Tom Lum:
I have a hunch, so I'm gonna step back a little bit, but...
Caroline:
Nice.
Tom Scott:
I also have a vague hunch, but I can't bring— I can— I think I know where we're drilling down to. I just can't figure out how you'd actually use that thing.
Ella:
I am s— What is happening?
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Okay, okay, okay.
Tom Lum:
Yes, and!
Tom Scott:
This is the trouble. When you get people on the show this many times, we all start trying to jostle for "Oh, have we got it? Have we got it?" Are you thinking the Nintendo Wii, Tom Lum?
Tom Lum:
Not at all.
Tom Scott:
Oh, okay.
Caroline:
Interesting.
Tom Scott:
Alright. We got multiple options here.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Scott:
So my theory was that it's the Nintendo Wii.
Caroline:
Uh-huh.
Tom Scott:
And... that had the handheld motion sensor thing.
Tom Lum:
Sh'uh-huh.
Tom Scott:
But the way you use that to... to do precise positioning, when you're pointing it at the television, it's got a little sensor bar on there. And that works on infrared light.
Tom Lum:
Uh-huh.
Tom Scott:
So, that is technically an infrared sensor. I was thinking maybe they hacked that somehow to find an infrared transmission for that. That's the thing. I couldn't bring it home past that.
Caroline:
Mm, mm, interesting. Tom Lum, what was your theory?
Tom Lum:
Can I say the device, and you let me know if I'm on the right track? Is it a...
Caroline:
Go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Lum:
specifically a 3DS?
Caroline:
No.
Tom Lum:
Really?
Ella:
Okay! You're both wrong! Sick.
Tom Lum:
It's not a DS? Is it a DS?
Caroline:
It's not.
Tom Scott:
Alright. We're good. We're back.
Caroline:
Do you wanna tell me your full theory?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, it was gonna be...
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
There's a feature called Street Pass, which is if you have your DS on...
Caroline:
Oh yeah!
Tom Lum:
and you pass by people, and they both are on with the screen down, it'll be like, "Oh, you visited this and that." And then the person's Mii would show up, and they'd be like, "Doo-doo-doo, I was involved in a hit-and-run." And then you'd be like, "That was the one!"
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Tom Lum:
Imagine you go up to the— you're going to the criminal lineup, and there's just a picture of their Mii, and you're like, "Alright, which one's the one?"
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Ella:
Caroline, I've almost forgotten the question now.
Caroline:
(laughs heartily)
Ella:
It's an Ninte— which, they used a Nintendo console.
Caroline:
They used— I haven't said which console yet.
Ella:
No, no, but a Nintendo console to find... the suspect in a hit-and-run.
Caroline:
Mhm. And this is in 2008 as well. Just as a reminder.
Ella:
So the 3DS wasn't out, and nor—
Caroline:
The 3DS was not out.
Ella:
And the Wii was out.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Ella:
Erm... but... Is it the Wii?
Caroline:
I'll give you that. It was the Nintendo Wii.
Tom Lum:
Caroline, I don't know if I imagined it, but I saw your face do a tell on something I said.
Caroline:
Did you? That's interesting. Do you wanna let everybody else try and see and see if they can pass through that first?
Ella:
No, we need this, Tom.
Caroline:
(laughs uproariously)
Tom Lum:
One of the things I said, I guess apparently was not that out of this world, just to say. Something about Miis?
Caroline:
There was something about Miis.
Ella:
I was about to say, just 'cause you brought it up, Tom, that it was about Miis, is 'cause that's the only other place I remember using Miis. if you don't know what a Mii is, then I'm not gonna help you, listeners.
Caroline:
Don't wanna be your friend, to be honest with you.
Ella:
(giggles)
Tom Scott:
You choose a character that looks like you, right?
Tom Lum:
You make one.
Ella:
You can make them. You make a character. You can make them look like anything.
Tom Scott:
A little tiny runabout character that like, yeah, this is me. That's the pun. Right.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
Did they use the Mii character as— on the poster for who is this?
Tom Lum:
That's...
Ella:
You know, like...
SFX:
(guests laugh uproariously)
Tom Scott:
Like an Identikit thing? Like an EFIT?
Ella:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Yes, they did, Ella.
Ella:
(squeals triumphantly)
SFX:
(Tom Scott and Caroline laugh)
Tom Lum:
What? No. No.
Caroline:
That is right. They made a wanted poster using a Mii profile from the Wii.
Ella:
How did they get that information?
Caroline:
So, there's not a whole load of articles about this incident. But essentially what happened was that instead of using a police artist or a piece of software like photofit...
Tom Lum:
Oh.
Caroline:
They used a Mii user profile on a Nintendo Wii to make a likeness of the suspect, basically.
Ella:
Did it work?
Caroline:
Reports don't say whether the suspect was apprehended or not, which makes me so sad.
Tom Lum:
I thought they had found the suspect's Wii. Only their Wii, and they were able to find their Mii. And they're like, "Alright, we have the suspect, and his collaborators were Mario and Luigi?"
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
He drove up behind, threw a red shell, and then...
Caroline:
Eyyy.
Tom Lum:
Aw yeah.
Ella:
Eyyy.
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Ella:
Based on his Mii profile, he was 12 foot tall with very tiny eyes and long arms.
Tom Lum:
His favorite color was blue. Get him!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Caroline:
Fun little fact for you. The Guinness Book of Records credited this as the first use of Nintendo for criminal investigation.
Ella:
The first, but not the last.
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Tom Scott:
Perhaps unsurprisingly, we have unlocked the shiny bonus question. There were some very quick solves in there.
Caroline:
Yay!
Ella:
We've smashed it.
Tom Scott:
Thank you to Asher Stuhlman for sending this one in.
On a hook in a hardware store, there are blister packs containing a single item. The same thing can also be purchased three hooks to the right. What are they?
I'll say that again.
On a hook in a hardware store, there are blister packs containing a single item. The same thing can also be purchased three hooks to the right. What are they?
Ella:
God, this is—
Tom Lum:
Flathead screws?
Caroline:
What?
Tom Lum:
It's just like, that's what it is, is just...
Ella:
The hardware store down the road from me has a billion things that are the same three hooks to the right.
Caroline:
Yeah. (laughs)
Ella:
So...
Tom Scott:
But not one hook to the right, and not two hooks to the right.
Ella:
Three hooks.
Tom Lum:
Mm.
Ella:
Because it's three hooks wide?
Caroline:
Yeah. Ooh.
Tom Lum:
But then, or is this a joke?
Caroline:
(blurts laugh) Are we being had? Is it happening?
Tom Lum:
Or yeah. Is it like, you know, it's some joke like, left-handed screwdrivers and right-handed screwdrivers or something like that?
Caroline:
Is— Are both items blister packed? Or is it just one of them?
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Okay.
Tom Scott:
Yeah, they both are.
Caroline:
Hmm.
Tom Scott:
And honestly, it's not left-handed screwdrivers and right-handed screwdrivers, but that is... Were this some sort of radar scanner, there would be a faint ping off in the distance.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
Okay, sure. I dunno why that was my metaphor, but we're going with it.
Caroline:
Scissors for girls and scissors for boys. And one of them is blue and one of them is pink.
Ella:
And they have to be kept separate 'cause of cooties.
Caroline:
Yeah, yeah. One of them is more expensive as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. (chuckles)
Ella:
(chuckles)
Tom Lum:
Oh, is it just like something like you would forget, and then the second time you see it, you're like, "Oh, I did actually need that," or...
Caroline:
Different sizes or...
Tom Lum:
Oh, is this a, actually, is this like a, like garbanzo bean/ chickpea difference, where it's like some people will look for it under this name, and others will look for it under a different name?
Caroline:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
Again, a faint ping in the distance.
Tom Lum:
We're on the radar? "Ping, ping!"
Tom Scott:
Yeah, yeah.
Ella:
Three hooks is important.
Tom Scott:
Yeah.
Ella:
And I cannot—
Tom Scott:
And it is relevant that they are hanging up.
Tom Lum:
Halloween decorations? Christmas decorations.
Caroline:
Are they hanging up so that children can't reach them?
Tom Scott:
Oh, no, you could sell these in a different position. It's just relevant that they are hanging up.
Caroline:
Interesting.
Tom Scott:
But this question wouldn't work if they were just sort of all bundled in a bin somewhere.
Tom Lum:
I'm entering my mind palace that is a warehouse, is a supply store.
Caroline:
Is it the same item hung over two different hooks?
Tom Lum:
Ooh, different kinds of hooks.
Caroline:
I was thinking like, is it one thing and because of the size of the thing or something like that, they've had to hook it over, and that's the distance between the handles or something like that, or—
Tom Scott:
Oh, no, no, no, no. Definitely a different... a different... The British term, I dunno if it's the US one, well, a different SKU, a different thing in the computer system.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
On each hook.
Caroline:
Two different barcodes to scan this thing, right?
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Okay. Yes. But it is the same thing.
Tom Lum:
Okay.
Caroline:
Interesting.
Tom Lum:
Again, the chickpea/ garbanzo bean kind of...
Caroline:
Mmmh.
Tom Lum:
Maybe. But if it's not that, then it might be something different. Would they go by the same name?
Tom Scott:
No.
Tom Lum:
Or they go by different names? Okay.
Tom Scott:
No.
Tom Lum:
So they go by different names, they have different things, but they're functionally identical.
Tom Scott:
Names is probably not the right word there, but...
Tom Lum:
Sure, sure, sure.
Caroline:
Is it branding differences?
Tom Scott:
There are similar items on all the other hooks in that section.
Tom Lum:
I'm trying to think like the tool knowledge, because I'm like, could it be like, it's like... nuts and bolts and bolts and nuts or something like that, where it's like two aspects of just...
Tom Scott:
Just sounds like you're doing percussion there.
Tom Lum:
Bolts and nuts and nuts and bolts.
Ella:
Is it like an alphabetical difference listing? So it's like three, it's three or I guess four letters further along in the alphabet, the two names for these?
Tom Scott:
That radar's pinging a lot louder now.
Tom Lum:
Nice.
Ella:
Okay.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Tom Lum:
I love that you've avoided doing onomatopoeia for yourself. You're just describing it. 'Cause in another word you're going "Ping-ping!"
Tom Scott:
Yeah!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
That's definitely too much pinging right now, Tom, but it is.
Tom Lum:
Okay, okay.
Tom Scott:
There's some pinging happening.
Ella:
Okay.
Tom Lum:
Alright. This is a good one.
Ella:
So it's an alphabetical difference that... But you said not names.
Tom Scott:
Not names.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
Is it a size difference? Like different length of screw?
Tom Scott:
Oh, no, these are the same thing.
Caroline:
The exact same thing, basically?
Ella:
Oh, it's a number. A number of things?
Tom Scott:
Keep going, Ella.
Ella:
So it's like... I'm trying to think of a number in al— where the alphabet, the start of that number has— it's like four versus—
Tom Scott:
It's not the alphabet.
Ella:
Oh, it's just numbers. It's like one and four of something.
Tom Scott:
Keep thinking that way. They're three apart.
Caroline:
It's not like house numbers or something like that, is it?
Tom Scott:
It is house numbers.
Ella:
Ooh.
Caroline:
Ooh.
Ella:
Oh. It's just house numbers.
Caroline:
Oh my god, is it '6' and '9'? But they're upside down?
Tom Scott:
Yes, it is!
Ella:
Oho!
Tom Scott:
Yes!
Tom Lum:
Oh my god! Caroline, bravo. (applauds)
Caroline:
(sighs loudly)
Tom Lum:
Ella, also with that. That was... man.
Tom Scott:
Yeah. Manufacturers of house numbers often use the exact same item for the number '6' or '9'.
Caroline:
They're cheap.
Tom Scott:
But because they're hanging on a hook, they have to do a separate product and a separate blister pack, so people don't go, "Oh, they're out of sixes."
Tom Lum:
They're out— (laughs heartily)
Caroline:
Wow. It's not the cheek of it. It's just the public doing the things the public do.
Tom Scott:
It's just the public. Yes, absolutely right.
Tom Lum:
Three apart. Wow.
Caroline:
Wow.
Tom Scott:
Which brings us to the question from the very start of the show.
Thank you to Michael for sending this one in.
Why might Danish hikers start counting cases of beer for their own safety?
Any guesses about that before I give the audience the answer?
Tom Lum:
You could have saved this for the last— for the bonus one. I am absolutely lost on this.
Ella:
I was thinking it's something to do with like oxygen levels, how much beer you could drink at different altitudes.
Caroline:
Is it just making sure that they haven't drank too much beer by counting how many beers they've had already?
Ella:
It's like a Hansel and Gretel, but for drunk Danish people.
Caroline:
(laughs) Yeah.
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it just to see how you're halfway through and then you need to come back after halfway or something like that?
Tom Scott:
I would say vaguely, in that it's to do with... timing.
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
They can't see any actual cases of beer here.
Tom Lum:
Is this like 99...
Ella:
99 bottles of beer on the wall? They're just singing the song as they go?
Tom Lum:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh-huh.
Caroline:
Yeah.
Tom Scott:
Well, again, not that, but...
Tom Lum:
Hmm, ping, ping on the radar.
Caroline:
(chuckles)
Tom Scott:
I regret starting the radar metaphor.
Tom Lum:
(laughs)
Tom Scott:
If only because that radar metaphor is... oddly quite apt for this one.
Ella:
That's throw me off more than before.
Tom Lum:
They're hikers? Is it hikers?
Tom Scott:
Yeah, hikers. Actually, that radar metaphor is really good for this one. I'm not sure if that's actually helpful to you. It's just later you're gonna go, "Oh yeah, I see what you meant."
Caroline:
(laughs)
Tom Lum:
(wheezes)
Ella:
Is it just, is it the amount of— They— Wait, you say they literally can't see them?
Tom Scott:
Yeah, there aren't any actual cases of beer here.
Ella:
Ah.
Tom Lum:
Is it dark maybe?
Tom Scott:
And possibly getting darker, yeah.
Tom Lum:
Okay, I was like, can you tell sunset by the angle or the reflection of— So wait, so they're metaphorical bottles, or they're real bottles of beer?
Tom Scott:
They are metaphorical cases of beer.
Tom Lum:
Met— okay.
Ella:
Oh.
Tom Lum:
I tried to bring that to a potluck once. It did not go over well.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom Scott:
Actually, I'm not sure metaphorical is even the right term there. They're not a metaphor for anything.
Tom Lum:
Okay, sure. But they're imaginary.
Ella:
Is it like a word? Is that word play we are missing here? 'Case of beer' means something in Danish?
Tom Scott:
No. I would actually go on radar being a thing, and I would go on... what Tom said about... darkness. Maybe it's getting a bit darker here.
Tom Lum:
Is it like Marco Polo? You— to say it's like, "Hey, I'm here." And then someone, call-and-response kind of a thing?
Ella:
Case of beer!
SFX:
(guests laughing)
Tom Lum:
Or like even like... 'Cause I know divers and... people in high altitude situations also, you know, might need to like verify that they have certain cognitive functions. So is it like you can keep— remember the number of beers is like a way to test that you are still cogent?
Tom Scott:
Again, I would drill into a tiny part of that, which is like, it's a test for something. And people in other countries count different things.
Caroline:
Is it like one Mississippi, two Mississippi?
Tom Lum:
Yeah.
Caroline:
One case of beer, two case of beer?
Tom Lum:
Oh my god.
Tom Scott:
Yes.
Tom Lum:
Oh my god.
Caroline:
Oh.
Tom Scott:
Yes, absolutely. That is the Danish version of "one Mississippi" or "one cattle dog" in Australia, "one crocodile" in South Africa.
Why might hikers be doing that for their own safety?
Ella:
The only thing I think is lightning. You know, thunder and lightning, for the distance between them?
Tom Scott:
Yes!
Caroline:
Ohhh!
Tom Scott:
Yes!
Tom Lum:
Wow! Slam dunk!
Tom Scott:
This is the Danish equivalent of the "one Mississippi, two Mississippi" technique. It is "en kasse øl, to kasser øl". That is "one case of beer, two case of beer."
That is timing how far away the lightning storm is and whether it's getting closer.
Caroline:
Wow.
Tom Scott:
That's why I was talking about radar. That's why I was talking about sunset. It's all— That's why I was talking about getting darker.
Tom Lum:
Whoa!
Tom Scott:
See? It wasn't a helpful hint, but afterwards, you're like, "Ah, I get what he meant there."
Thank you very much to all our players. What's going on with you? Where can people find you?
We will start with Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Oh my goodness. You can find all three of us at Let's Learn Everything, the podcast or LetsLearnEverything.com, where you can find all of our social media stuff.
Tom Scott:
Ella, what sort of things can they find there?
Ella:
You can find... the podcast that we do, which is about, you know, every— anything and everything. Ev— That's it, yeah.
Tom Scott:
(cackles)
Caroline:
(wheezes)
Tom Scott:
And Tom Lum. What sort of things recently have been going up there?
Tom Lum:
We have just had on a friend of this podcast, Iszi Lawrence, talking all about Egypt, and it was truly one of our— what a— We were truly in awe at all the stuff we learned. It was amazing.
Tom Scott:
And if you wanna know more about this show, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We are at @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are weekly full video episodes on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Tom Lum.
Tom Lum:
Whoa, full video!
Tom Scott:
Ella Hubber.
Ella:
Oh, woo! Aw.
Tom Scott:
(laughs) And Caroline Roper.
Caroline:
Yeah!
Tom Scott:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | Matthew Sherlip, Selena, Mikael, Meggie, Frank Mutter, Cameron L., Jack Harding, Asher Stuhlman |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |