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Episode 194: Cockpit balls
26th June, 2026 • Charlotte Yeung, Iszi Lawrence and Ólafur Waage face questions about Latin lingo, legal leniency and gaming grass.
Transcription by Caption+
Tom:
What are you doing if you are committing 'monolithic biaviacide'?
The answer to that at the end of the show. My name's Tom Scott, and this is Lateral.
Lateral is incredibly excited to unveil our latest release: Questions 2026™ – now with enhanced ambiguity, deeper misdirection, and a completely redesigned interface for guessing. Built from the ground up, Questions 2026™ features faster assumptions, smarter distractions, and a revolutionary new system that makes confident wrong answers feel even better.
We've also introduced three human beta testers who will be stress testing our logic in real time. They haven't seen the documentation, they skipped onboarding, and they've already agreed to the terms and conditions without reading them.
Let's meet our early adopters. They are all returning players.
We start with Iszi Lawrence. Welcome back!
Iszi:
Thank you very much. Lovely to be here again. Again, again.
Tom:
I appreciate the roller banner that has been placed behind you with the new books on it.
Iszi:
Indeed. I mean, I was doing stuff earlier, and it was up, and if you've ever tried to, you know, take a roller banner down, it's almost lethal. So it's staying there.
Tom:
It's like a tape measure, but vertical and so much bigger.
Iszi:
It— And it snaps back in exactly the way that tape measure does, the way you think it might actually still bite you. So, it's staying there.
Tom:
Is it for a particular book? 'Cause I think you've got a new book out since we last saw you.
Iszi:
I do have a new book. It's this book here. It is called The Domesday Cows, and I wrote it quite cynically. 'Cause it's for 9 to 12 year olds, and what do 9 to 12 year olds like more than cattle? And the answer to that is medieval surveys.
So this is, it's set in 1086, up in Chester, and it follows a girl called Nora. And it's good fun, and involves hiding cattle, which is difficult 'cause it's before they invented sofas.
Tom:
Just to be clear, are you talking about leather sofas there, or just a sofa to hide a cow behind?
Iszi:
To be fair, I realised when I said that, and I was saying that off the cuff, that I imagine Romans had sofas or some sort of sitting implements. So I'm not going to— I with-tract my factual statement there. I wrote it for humans.
Tom:
But if they did, those sofas will be appearing in an Iszi Lawrence book at some point soon.
Iszi:
Indeed, definitely.
Tom:
Well, good luck to you on the show today.
Also returning, Ólafur Waage. Welcome back.
Ólafur:
Hi.
Tom:
What have you been up to lately? Because I've been seeing clips of you doing... English stand-up in the Nordics. I'm not sure where in the Nordics. I was gonna say a country, and I'm like, I'm probably gonna be wrong.
Ólafur:
No, I've been doing it in Norway, so in Oslo. It's called English Standup Oslo. Yeah, I thought, like, I've been doing the silly videos about the Nordic for about five years. I thought, let's just try something different. Let's call it, I don't know... a middle-age kind of thing. Let's just go for it.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
Let's just try different things.
Tom:
Are you getting mostly folks who have English as a first language, or are you getting Oslo locals who... I mean, to be fair, almost everyone in Oslo speaks English anyway.
Ólafur:
Yeah, yeah, their English is perfect, and it's fine, and there's no problems.
SFX:
(both chuckling)
Ólafur:
We do a little survey in the beginning of every show. It's like, "Who here is international?" And it's about half and half.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Ólafur:
It's usually a Nordic partner dragging their non-Nordic other partner to a comedy show, so...
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
Like, "Here, I need to educate you about the culture. Come join us." So, yeah.
Tom:
Well, good luck with the show today.
Also returning to Lateral, we have... Miss London, Charlotte Yeung.
Charlotte:
Hello! So excited to be back. (laughs)
Tom:
How is the Miss London journey going for you?
Charlotte:
It's really good. I actually just came back from an international pageant in the Philippines, and that was for people of Chinese descent but brought up in different countries. And I met people from all around the world, and it was the most wonderful experience. And I learned a lot about the culture as well. And yeah, just... I'm having holiday blues right now.
SFX:
(both laughing)
Tom:
Well, hopefully we'll be able to cheer you up a little bit out of those blues. I also feel, for those who haven't heard your previous episodes, we should clarify what a modern pageant like that is about.
Charlotte:
Oh, yes. So I know that there's some underlying misunderstandings about pageantry as a whole, and people seem to think it's like flaunting your body around or how pretty you look on camera. But I think like over the past few years, things have really changed, and really, I believe that the best pageants are ones based upon purpose.
So for example, the advocacy of the current pageant that I just participated in was raising gastric cancer awareness, because the CEO recently had his wife pass away from gastric cancer. And then we took a lot of— We went around the hospitals and also learned a lot about the importance of testing early. And also it relates somewhat closely to my PhD supervisor's academic area, because he does colonic cancer drug delivery. And so it was a really good mix, and I really felt that, and that's why I think I had such a good time there as well.
Tom:
Also casually dropping the PhD in there. Well done.
Charlotte:
Yes, yeah, I just had to.
SFX:
(both giggling)
Tom:
For all three of you then, let's hope this is a show to keep any holiday blues away. The scripts have already been compiled. It's time to clear the error messages and open the file labelled question one.
Thank you to Victor for this question.
In 2024, several roadside billboards in Texas – featuring a smartly-dressed man – were installed upside down. What were they advertising?
And one more time.
In 2024, several roadside billboards in Texas – featuring a smartly-dressed man – were installed upside down. What were they advertising?
Iszi:
Well, I would think it would be some sort of... Australian tourist board. But the smartly-dressed man just doesn't really chime with Australia.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
So, it can't be that.
Ólafur:
Anytime I think about roadside billboards in the US, I think about like, "Oh, were you injured? Here's a lawyer that needs to help you out." So is there sort of, like, anti-lawyer, where they turn the sign upside down, and, like, the lawyer's in the car, and he can't help you, or "we can't help you"? I don't know.
Tom:
That is the right type of lawyer, Ólafur. So, I'm gonna tweak the question slightly. In 2024, several roadside billboards in Texas for an injury lawyer were installed upside down. Why?
Charlotte:
Is it like a "turn your life upside down" kind of vibe? "We'll help deal with all your injury issues and claims"?
Ólafur:
I can also imagine, like, if it is an injury lawyer, maybe they're working with a car company to show you how good these belts are, so he is upside down in a car, and he just won't fall out.
SFX:
(Tom and Ólafur laugh)
Ólafur:
He's being held very firmly.
Iszi:
I'm trying to think of all the puns I can involve being upside down. 'Cause it has to be a pun-based image, surely.
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Iszi:
There's gonna be a, you know, like you said, Charlotte, turn your life upside down, or dangle in with me. I don't know. You don't dangle in court, do you? That's not a thing.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Charlotte:
Or shake your pockets, like, for all your money. "Give me all your money."
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Ólafur:
Oh, that's good. (laughs) That's so good.
Iszi:
Or is it something weird, like there's a sort of trademark on a particular person? So there's a— What's the name of the spinoff from Breaking Bad? That guy who was like a sleazy...
Ólafur:
Better Call Saul.
Iszi:
Better Call Saul.
So it could be, for example, that they've trademarked Better Call Saul, but not if he's upside down, the actor who plays him. So they— it could be a way of getting past sort of like, trademark rules, where you have somebody's face upside down, doesn't count as using their face. And so therefore, you could have put a Hollywood actor up there, advertising your brand.
Tom:
The entire billboard is upside down. The text, the numbers, everything. One thing about these billboards is that there are frequently so many of them, and drivers get so used to them, that after a few iterations of the cycle of the names being up, they will start just putting their faces and something like, "You know who I am." Or just— the— it— The drivers are expected to be familiar with this anyway.
Iszi:
So is this... Well, you didn't just give us the answer there, did you, Tom?
Tom:
No, I didn't, no, but...
Iszi:
It's not just a case of, you know... it stands out because it's weird.
Tom:
That's part of it, if you like. You know, it's— that's how people are gonna talk about this lawyer's billboard, as opposed to the other hundred lawyers' billboards.
Iszi:
Okay.
Tom:
Ólafur, you said he's kind of belted in. He's not, but you're a little bit close there. He's not.
Ólafur:
Oh, but others are? Ah. 'Cause I can imagine that you said that something about, like, there's many of these signs, or there's like, this sign is, like— 'Cause if the whole sign's upside down, that means the phone number or the website, everything is upside down, which means you can't go and see it unless, yeah, you do your thing.
Charlotte:
Yeah, maybe there's some sort of... Maybe in an area where... Oh, this is so silly, but, like, you know how on a roller coaster, you're upside down, and you would be able to spot it from afar. But, like, maybe belted in, not rollercoaster, but some other kind of contraption where you're upside down.
Iszi:
Is there an actual car upside down next to the billboards?
Tom:
(giggles)
Iszi:
As a sort of, like, here's, you know, "These people need me, and they can read what I'm doing."
Tom:
His budget didn't stretch that far, Iszi, but you're right. That is the joke. If you get into an accident and flip over, then the board will be the right way up.
Iszi:
There you go.
Tom:
This is a personal injury attorney, Hadi Law, Husein Hadi, in Texas. And if you get into an accident and flip over near his billboard, you will be able to read it. His company claims over a quarter of a billion dollars in trial settlements, which is probably why he can afford that many billboards.
Iszi:
That's a lot.
Tom:
Yeah. (laughs)
Iszi, let's go for your question, please.
Iszi:
Okay, here we go.
John puts on a stethoscope, enters a sparsely furnished room, and talks to an injured man he's never met before. After a few minutes, John leaves without issuing any advice and never sees the man again. What's John doing?
And again.
John puts on a stethoscope, enters a sparsely furnished room, and talks to an injured man he's never met before. After a few minutes, John leaves without issuing any advice and never sees the man again. What is John doing?
Ólafur:
Well, if he's a doctor, he's doing a bad job. But I'm guessing he's not a doctor.
SFX:
(others chuckling)
Tom:
And if he's not a doctor, he's in fact just pretending to be a doctor.
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Iszi:
Ooh.
Charlotte:
He's actually advertising for the billboard as well.
SFX:
(group laughing)
Ólafur:
The injured man is the guy upside down, and it's all a whole kind of thing.
Tom:
Both a doctor and a lawyer, it turns out. Qualified in both.
Iszi:
Well, I will say that unlike the lawyer from Texas, who I assume is American, John is in fact British.
Tom:
Oh, okay.
Iszi:
But, and here's a little clue, he often works abroad.
Tom:
I'm trying to work out 'sparsely furnished room'.
Iszi:
Mm.
Tom:
A medical ward is not sparsely furnished. There's a lot of stuff around there to keep the patient going.
Ólafur:
Famously furnished.
Iszi:
There is.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Iszi:
Indeed. Although when I went in for an op, they— I was very upset. 'Cause I went in for an op, and it's a proper go-under op. But my room beforehand, they put a chair in. I didn't get to lie down on a bed until they cut me open.
Tom:
Oh. (chuckles)
Iszi:
Which I thought was mean. Just 'cause I could walk.
Tom:
I remember the last time I had something like that, which is a long while ago now... they— nice room for beforehand, put you on the trolley, they wheel you through. But the anaest— where they give you the anaesthetic was in the basement.
Iszi:
Ooh.
Tom:
And... there's no natural light, and it's not really like a patient-focused area. So all of a sudden, this just got... the vibes changed a lot, and not in a way that made you confident!
Iszi:
It's amaz— when you turn from human to meat parcel. That's...
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Iszi:
However, it's not, I will say now, it's— The sparsely furnished room is not in a hospital.
Ólafur:
I wonder if the injury of the man actually matters or is serious, or, like, it just happens that they are, okay, they're injured, or something happened before, and this whole thing is kind of a... I don't know, misdirect?
Charlotte:
Maybe it's he's just the wrong kind of doctor for this injured man, and he goes in, he's like, "Yeah, this is not working. Nothing, no advice to give. Let me just leave, and... can't help you, so I'm not gonna go see you again."
Iszi:
I love that answer, but unfortunately that is incorrect. He is... Yeah. It's— That's— That would be an amazing answer. I like that. "I'm sorry, I'm a pediatrician. Can't help. There we go. You're too old."
Charlotte:
(laughs) You're too old!
Ólafur:
"I'm actually a vet, and you're not a dog, so I'm very sorry."
SFX:
(group laughing)
Tom:
But I can prescribe you some great tranquilisers, just really, really good.
Iszi:
So I will underline: John is not giving out medical advice. I'm just gonna underline that.
Tom:
So maybe the stethoscope isn't for the patient.
Iszi:
Technically, you're correct. Technically.
Tom:
(laughs tensely) I don't like being technically correct on Lateral. That's...
Iszi:
(snickers)
Ólafur:
Not helpful.
Iszi:
As in, that is correct, but I don't know if it's gonna help you, but it might.
Tom:
Somehow that has increased the possibilities.
Iszi:
Alright then. I will give you another clue. John works for the UK government.
Tom:
Hmm.
Ólafur:
I wonder if this is... it just— they just happen to have met. It wasn't a thing that they have to meet, or there was a— this was an appointment. It just happens to have created that scenario of they— he has the stethoscope, and the person he met is an injured person on the way to a hospital at some point. Don't worry, we will get to that. It just happens that that— this was the situation.
Iszi:
It's kind of the opposite of that.
Charlotte:
This is an interrogation room.
Iszi:
Ooh!
Ólafur:
Oh?
Charlotte:
And I'm gonna whack him...
Iszi:
Carry on.
Charlotte:
With my (laughs) stethoscope until he gives me the answers that I want.
Iszi:
I want you to carry on with that thought, but less of the whacking.
Charlotte:
Okay.
Tom:
Sparsely furnished could be a cell or a holding cell. Could be... the custody suite. It's where they keep someone after their arrest for the 24 hours they're legally allowed to question them. That's a sparsely furnished room. I don't know... (laughs) I don't know why you would go in with a stethoscope!
Ólafur:
I have a weird question. Do you know how long he was in that room? Was it hours?
Iszi:
I don't imag— Well, I don't know is the answer to that question. The impression that I would give to help you with the answer is: he's probably been there for a short amount of time, and has come in injured, and then they send in John.
Ólafur:
Okay. Because... in old— I've, read some books about like interrogation techniques that were used in the past, where a way to gain trust is just to be with a person, just to... Like one way to get a spy to tell you something is just to have a chair right next to you, and just read the paper for eight hours a day, and then you leave. And you do that every day, and eventually the person will be like, "Oh, yeah, here's my paper person. I'm gonna— I will open up to them."
Iszi:
So that is one interrogation technique. What is another?
Charlotte:
Waterboarding.
Iszi:
Yes. That is...
SFX:
(others laughing)
Iszi:
I don't know if that's— I don't think— Remember, John works for the UK government. And the UK government is a signatory of various UN conventions. So I don't know if that's—
Tom:
The worst suggestion said in the calmest voice.
Iszi:
I know. (laughs) So, how would a stethoscope, and going in to see an injured man, and not giving him any medical advice help with an interrogation?
Ólafur:
Make them feel like they are terminal, or everything's okay, or give them fake medical advice, bad medical advice. Make them worried about like, "Oh, no, this is..."
Iszi:
You were so closer with your other answer.
Tom:
"You can trust me, I'm a doctor." You're not saying you're a doctor. You just happen to be wearing a stethoscope, and that makes you trustworthy.
Iszi:
Pretty much. I think you guys have got it.
So in the early 2000s, an unnamed man appeared on a BBC chat show hosted by Johnny Vaughan. As a former British interrogator, he revealed that this was one of the tricks that was used to obtain information from captured soldiers. He would dress up as a doctor and ask seemingly innocuous questions like, "Where does it hurt? What were you doing at the time? Where did this happen?" Et cetera.
And as I said, the UK is a signatory to various UN and European conventions that prevent the use of torture... Charlotte.
SFX:
(group laughs heartily)
Iszi:
During interrogation.
Evidence obtained this way is also inadmissible in British courts. So this is a way that you can kind of massage the truth out of someone by just going, "Oh, where were you at the time?" And then later you can send in a real interrogator who says, "Well, that's not what you told the doctor, was it?"
Tom:
This question has been sent in by both Bjørnar and Bernhard.
Before flying an Airbus A320, both pilots check three small plastic balls mounted on the centre window pillar. They aren't sensors, lights, or controls. What are they for?
I'll say that again.
Before flying an Airbus A320, both pilots check three small plastic balls mounted on the centre window pillar. They aren't sensors, lights, or controls. What are they for?
Iszi:
So, I'm thinking literally, like, ping pong balls stuck to the middle of the windscreen. Is that—
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
Is that kind of what I'm—
Tom:
Yeah, may—
Iszi:
Okay.
Tom:
Maybe a little smaller, but yeah.
Iszi:
Okay. I imagine, okay, this has got something to do, 'cause the only thing that really goes wrong with aircraft is either they go too slow, or they basically, there's something wrong with air pressure. So is this something to do with air pressure?
Ólafur:
Yeah. 'Cause initially, 'cause when you said ping-pong balls, and Tom said they were smaller, 'cause initially I thought, like, "Oh, they're travelling a lot, so this is Pokémon Go ." You can buy the ball version of Pokémon Go , and then, 'cause they're flying all over the place and they want to catch the rare Pokémons that are at that airport. So they would just have a bunch of the Pokémon balls up front. But they're bigger than ping-pong balls, so that wouldn't work.
Charlotte:
I was thinking maybe it's something like, not quite religious, but like... an event that they do every time, like superstitious, that they need to check that it's all aligned in the right way, before they both fly off.
Iszi:
I was thinking, is that something like a signaling? 'Cause I know like at banks and stuff will occasionally put like playing cards outside the windows, and you don't go into the bank if it's the wrong type of playing cards, and you know that little code, because somebody's, you know, in the bank waiting to kill you if they put the wrong playing card up. So, is it like that? So, it's three balls done, and they've got markers on them in a certain specific way, and only you know that code, because somebody could have... I don't know. You can't really— There's not really the same sort of problem with the—
Tom:
Where do you bank, Iszi?!
SFX:
(group laughing)
Iszi:
High street banks. Look out for them. Occasionally you get little cards on the high street banks. If they've got a lot of money in, they'll do a security thing where they will say, "Don't enter." It's a true thing.
Tom:
Huh.
Iszi:
I've seen it. I'm not lying. I have seen them.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
But like, it's not always playing cards. There's usually— there's some sort of thing in the shop, where unless you know, like they'll— people know what card it is, and they'll get texted it that morning. Don't go in unless it's this card. That sort of stuff.
Tom:
Huh.
Iszi:
Yeah. That would be a great Lateral question, wouldn't it?
Tom:
It would.
Iszi:
Oh, I should have sent it in.
Tom:
It's gone now.
SFX:
(Iszi and Charlotte laugh)
Tom:
Of all those suggestions, Charlotte, it's not religious or superstitious, but you're right. They go in, they check these immediately, and 'alignment' is an important word there.
Iszi:
I'm just curious about how these balls are stuck there. Because logically, you know, the windscreen tilts backwards towards the cabin. So, is this a static electricity thing? Is this something to do with like, you know— You know how you get balloons, and you can rub them on your head and stick them to the side? Well, maybe these are really static, and there's something about, oh yeah, cabin pressure has to be a certain way, and electricity has to be a certain way, or it'll get, I don't know. It doesn't really matter if a plane's hit by lightning, and it's unlikely to. I don't know.
Ólafur:
Or that they're painted? We have the three of them, and they're painted. You have like a line on them, and you're checking if the lines have twisted, so— 'Cause they should have a straight line on them.
Tom:
We're getting a lot closer now. I think if you put that together with Charlotte's ideas about alignment and checking them very early on, that's—
Iszi:
Is it to do with like if there's like, wind in the cabin to check that any wind, there's leakage of the windows? 'Cause that's what you don't want. You don't want a slight crack in the window.
Tom:
Oh, you definitely don't want a window open in an A320.
Iszi:
Exactly. Exactly. They go quite high up.
Tom:
They do.
Iszi:
But if there's any sort of like, you know, a breeze happening, and if the balls are moving because they're lightly stuck there with, what, Blu Tack? What's going on?
Tom:
Well, they're in a triangular formation. I don't know how they're attached, but they are in a triangular formation.
Iszi:
Okay. A triangular formation.
Charlotte:
Is it to know, like, the starting position of the plane before they lift off? I don't know why you would want to know that!
SFX:
(Charlotte and Tom laugh)
Tom:
Not of the plane, but that's very good, Charlotte. That's very close.
Charlotte:
Starting position of the pilot's seats.
Tom:
Yes! Spot on. How does it work? You've got three balls in a triangular position there, in the middle.
Charlotte:
You would want to be exactly... Oh, I don't know. This is bad. Like, you wanna be exactly, like, X centimetre away on the left side, and X centimetres away on the right side to be symmetrical?
Ólafur:
Yeah, is it the X, Y, and Z of the... 'Cause I am very particular about my chair, about how it should be set. So is this like, if I set it this way and line the balls up, then the chair will be correct?
Tom:
Yes.
Iszi:
But why don't— Okay. 'Cause I was just gonna say, why wouldn't it be like just getting in a car and having a feel and looking out the windows and everything else? Why do they need a specific ball thing to...
Tom:
Because in an Airbus A320, the eyeline needs to be in the right position. To see all the instruments at the right location, for everything to line up as you're coming in to land or taking off, everything like that, you need to have your eyes in the right place. And Charlotte, you're absolutely right. If you line up two of these balls, the one in the middle and the one on the other side, you know your eyeline is in the right position if they're both in the exact same place covering each other. And for the co-pilot, centre ball and the other ball.
Iszi:
So not only as a pilot do you need perfect vision...
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
you also need perfect posture, is what you're saying.
Tom:
Yes. Yeah.
Iszi:
You can't slouch.
Tom:
Yeah.
Iszi:
That's a nightmare job, isn't it?
Tom:
So yes, on the Airbus A320, three small plastic spheres are mounted in a triangular arrangement on the central cockpit window strut, and they are a seat position guide. Each pilot adjusts their seat until the middle ball visually lines up with the outer ball on the opposite side, which means they're sitting at the precise design eye point, to make sure they're not straining to see the instrument panel or the view outside.
Iszi:
It's weird though, 'cause the— I wrote a book, guys.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Iszi:
Which involved doing a lot of research about... you know, the different types of plane, particularly during the Second World War, and how different, you know, how different the seats were. So you had pilots trying to sit in seats, and the female pilots who were delivering the planes around for the ATA in Britain, they had to use their parachutes, just jammed behind their back, so they could reach the controls. And there was an amazing crash. There was a lady called Diana Barnato Walker, and she was flying a – as an American plane – out of the American air base down in Southampton, which is currently Southampton Airport, and it was a twin engine. And twin engines, you have two... what were they... accelerators, throttles.
Tom:
Thrust levers. Thrust lever, there you go.
Iszi:
Right. And the thing is, you check before you sort of go on, that the thrust levers are, you know, they're in alignment and everything else. She was in a rush because there was a war on. Anyway, and she took off, and as she took off, the acceleration of the plane – she should have asked for a cushion, but apparently the Americans are a bit sort of poo-pooey of female pilots, and she didn't wanna do that. And when she took off, the acceleration pushed her right back in there, and one of the throttles started to inch backwards. So she had one engine going full speed and the other one going really slowly. And she didn't know. She was just like— And she was trying to reach for the throttle, but she was being pushed back by the acceleration so much she couldn't, and the entire plane started to tip and turn into the ground. And the only way she got out of it was she got her foot and kicked it.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Forward as possible. And the whole thing righted itself and went up. And then, yeah, that's— so there is, you know, there is a danger of not fitting in your seat as a pilot that is beyond the eyeline.
Ólafur:
If that's a movie scene, I don't know what.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur, whenever you're ready, it's your question, please.
Ólafur:
This question has been sent in by Lydia.
Why did many sports – such as cricket, soccer, and tennis – see rapid growth, standardisation, and development during the 1830s?
I'll say it again.
Why did many sports – such as cricket, soccer, and tennis – see rapid growth, standardisation, and development during the 1830s?
Iszi:
Well, I'd like to say this has got something to do with nations and nationalization 'cause this is mid-19th century. Everybody's starting to become very nationalist. When you get the, you know, Brothers Grimm getting the fairy tales and saying, "This is like, you know, what we're all about." So is it something to do with nations?
Tom:
I was thinking more telegraph, like technology. There's something coming along, and all of a sudden, there is the— All of a sudden, teams in different areas are competing under the same rules, becaue now they send the rules to each other.
Iszi:
But they could send the rules to each other before. It just wouldn't be as instantaneous. Why does it matter that it's instantaneous?
Tom:
True.
Charlotte:
I was thinking maybe something to do with increasing teamwork or trying to boost morale, because cricket and soccer are team sports. And tennis can also technically be 2v2.
Ólafur:
Tom went on a tangent about technology.
Tom:
Okay.
Ólafur:
I would play with that idea.
Iszi:
It was a time of rapid industrialisation, the 1830s.
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Iszi:
So is it something to do with canal building? No.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
So why in the 1830s? Why— 'Cause it is also a time— Is this the first time we're getting actual national... 'Cause it's k— it's a bit early for the Olympics being reintroduced, but it's getting there. But is this kind of the first time as well that we're getting sort of like an England team... and a French team and that sort of— I've gone really into the national thing, because that's kind of all I know about the 19th cent— early 19th century.
Tom:
And we've all assumed that this is like England here. This could be international. This could be a thing coming out of the US. This could be Empire.
Iszi:
It could just be, we love standardisation.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
And we're getting really like we've done it. We've basically— we've got all the species lined up now. We're starting to get into dinosaurs. Let's just do it with a sport. Let's get that down, right? It could be something like that.
Ólafur:
I'll give you an annoying, annoying hint.
SFX:
(Tom and Iszi laugh)
Ólafur:
Yeah. Because it is technology related, but that technology has nothing to do with the sport itself directly.
Iszi:
Okay.
Ólafur:
So, it comes from outside of the sport.
Charlotte:
What about like automatic rolling of the ball or the item? I mean, they're all balls actually, like the soccer ball, the cricket ball, the tennis ball. You have those machines that whir them out, right?
Tom:
Oh, yeah.
Charlotte:
And like, and then it would just make it easier for people to pick up the sport?
Iszi:
It might be that this ball standard is actually made the standard size because they've got the machinery to make it a standard size.
Tom:
Hold on. Ólafur, you said it wasn't to do with the sport itself.
Ólafur:
Correct.
Tom:
How about the equipment? And the only equipment I can think that all those sports use is gonna be the uniforms. Is there some technology in like 1830 that means we can suddenly dye clothes differently or put clothes together differently, and suddenly we get teams having matching colours and matching uniforms and big gambling companies sponsoring them despite the fact that shouldn't be legal? He says, suddenly shoehorning a personal opinion into his answer.
Iszi:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
What were the sports? Think of the sports.
Iszi:
So you said cricket, soccer, and tennis.
Ólafur:
There's something in common here.
Tom:
Balls.
Iszi:
They all use balls.
Ólafur:
Mhm. What else?
Iszi:
They're all team sports. They all originated... Well, cricket certainly was a women's sport. Tennis wasn't, it was an inside sport. Soccer's just whatever. I mean, soccer's different in every country until... it isn't.
Charlotte:
They require running.
Ólafur:
Where are they played?
Iszi:
Currently all over the world, but England was definitely, I think England was cricket.
Charlotte:
On a pitch like AstroTurf?
Ólafur:
Mhm, mhm.
Tom:
They're all on grass.
Ólafur:
Uh-huh.
Iszi:
Okay.
Charlotte:
They could make fake grass and standardise that across the countries.
Tom:
They could standardize turf across countries?
Ólafur:
You're getting pretty close there. Getting pretty close.
Iszi:
Okay. It's the size of the court? So they're just standardising the actual lines and how long they should be? Is it, you know...
Tom:
(gasps loudly)
Iszi:
Are we moving from— to metres?
Tom:
Did someone invent the lawnmower?!
Ólafur:
They invented the lawnmower.
Iszi:
Eyyy!
SFX:
(Tom and Charlotte laugh)
Iszi:
What's wrong with geese, hmm?
Ólafur:
Oh, I love that a-ha moment.
Iszi:
That's right.
Ólafur:
That was so good. That was so good.
Iszi:
That was great.
Tom:
I was like, was it like AstroTurf or standardised grass? No, they've standardised the height of the grass blades!
Ólafur:
Well, they standardised the grass by using a lawnmower. Yeah.
Before the 19th century, maintaining smooth grass surfaces required teams of labourers using scythes and grazing animals, which produced uneven results, which made consistent pitches difficult.
Edwin Budding patented the first mechanical lawnmower in 1830.
Tom:
This question comes from Sam E. Thank you very much, Sam.
A 2018 study found that juvenile judges in Louisiana handed down noticeably harsher sentences during certain weeks. At first, the pattern seemed random, but researchers eventually identified a specific cause. What was it?
And one more time.
A 2018 study found that juvenile judges in Louisiana handed down noticeably harsher sentences during certain weeks. At first, the pattern seemed random, but researchers eventually identified a specific cause. What was it?
Ólafur:
I think I know this one. I'm not 100%.
Iszi:
Do you?
Ólafur:
I'm like in the 80% percentile. I think I know this.
Tom:
Now—
Ólafur:
I might jump in if I hear something—
Tom:
Well, I'm gonna ask Ólafur, 'cause I— the first time I read this question, I was like, "Oh, I know the answer to this."
Ólafur:
Mhm.
Tom:
It did say certain weeks, not certain hours.
Ólafur:
Then, yeah, then I might not know this.
Tom:
Ah. What were you thinking?
Ólafur:
Yeah, 'cause I was thinking, before lunch time, they just wanna go to lunch, so they would just, "Yeah, guilty, guilty, not guilty. I'm gonna go to lunch now." So then you— yeah.
Tom:
There was a research paper about that, which has since potentially been debunked.
Ólafur:
Good, good to know.
undefined:
ecause...
Tom:
Well, it's one of those things that's gonna be very confusing whatever. But they found there may be a confounding factor in that... the court schedulers tended to put simple cases immediately before lunch, so things wouldn't go into lunch. And that might have confounded things slightly. But in this case, no, it is not that. This is certain weeks. Thank you to Producer David. That was the "hungry judge effect", which is now somewhat debunked.
Iszi:
But these are specifically juvenile judges.
Tom:
Yes.
Iszi:
Rather th— and which is such a— Why do you have a juvenile judge?
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
So is it a judge— It's not kids doing it. It's a judge.
Tom:
No, this is—
Ólafur:
Hope not.
Iszi:
Okay. This is for juvenile court.
Tom:
Yes.
Iszi:
Okay. So when are children most annoying? What date— what time of year?
Tom:
(laughs heartily)
Iszi:
'Cause that would be when you're going to really crack down on them. So probably, I mean, not going up to Christmas, 'cause they'll be like, "Oh, it's going up to Christmas. Gotta be nice to the kids for that." So there must be times of year when people are just like, "I'll get the kids out the way." I don't— I'm trying to think.
Charlotte:
It's summer holiday, and they're raising all the prices for, like, going abroad to the Bahamas or something.
Tom:
We joke, but the juvenile prison industrial complex in America is awful. Just to be clear here.
Iszi:
Okay. Well, I would suggest it's therefore... going to be something to do with how obnoxious the kid is. It could be that. It could not just be that the judge is thinking children are annoying, and there've been so many crimes, I'm gonna really get to them, because it's the time of year, like spring break, where they're just smashing stuff up. And so I'm definitely increasing the, you know, harsh penalty 'cause I'm just getting so many in. It could literally be that there are times of year where children are more annoying than not. And it could be an actual, you know, they're ba— they are worse behaved at these time of years. It's gonna be one or the other. It's gonna be the judge is getting more annoyed with the children at this time of year, or it's gonna be the children are definitely worse.
Tom:
It is neither of those!
Iszi:
Ooh, okay! I'm thinking wrong. Okay.
Tom:
(cackles) This was a state-wide effect, not just one courtroom.
Ólafur:
I wonder if it's the case of like, okay, they are kids. We do want them to be in school. So, let's give them sentences if the thing is happening over summer. So get them to work over the summer, because we don't want them to cut out on school time.
Iszi:
I think it's worse. I think this might be to do— 'Cause they've got a private prison system. This might be, we've got a certain amount of budget to spend, and therefore we will put them— we'll be really harsh at this time, because we can afford it, and we've gotta renew the budget next year. And if we don't lock up enough children, we're not gonna get the same budget next year.
Ólafur:
Oh, end of quarter?
Charlotte:
That would be absolutely terrible if that was it. (laughs)
Tom:
It would. That does not feel like a Lateral question. I'm gonna rule that out as—
Iszi:
No, it doesn't. That's not fun.
Ólafur:
Get it out the way.
Charlotte:
What if the kids had... a certain period in time where they had all collated that they were going to go and do something bad, and it would be easier to sentence all of them... simultaneously with the same kind of harsh punishment.
Tom:
This is nothing to do with the kids or the crime.
Charlotte:
Well, why did you say juvenile?
Iszi:
That's...
SFX:
(group chuckling)
Iszi:
Okay.
Tom:
And look. The hungry judge effect may have been at least partly debunked, and it may not have been the answer to this, but certainly there's a parallel here.
Charlotte:
The Christmastime effect. We want all—
Iszi:
Yeah.
Charlotte:
We want our whole docket unloaded before we go into Christmas.
Tom:
Let me clarify 'certain weeks'. This would be one week on, one week off, just seemingly at random, week by week.
Ólafur:
So then it's not the case of like, ah, just before Thanksgiving, just before Christmas.
Tom:
Nope.
Ólafur:
It's just... if you would look at it on a map, you'd be like, that's a weird pattern.
Tom:
Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. You'd need to correlate it with something.
Iszi:
There is something to colorate— colorate it with.
Tom:
Yes, absolutely.
Iszi:
That's hard to say.
Tom:
It is.
Iszi:
To colorate. Yeah.
Tom:
Particularly 'cause it's 'correlate', but...
Iszi:
Correlate. Yeah. It's not correlate. That's why it's weird. That's why it's not sitting right on my tongue. Okay. Okay, so I... And this is America. And now I've got that song in my head.
Tom:
(laughs)
SFX:
(Charlotte and Iszi crack up)
Iszi:
(growls)
Ólafur:
Maybe that's a question. If this would've been other countries, would we see similarly weird patterns? Is this an America thing?
Iszi:
Or is this—
Charlotte:
Is it something like they're getting, like, the juvenile judges are having feedback or, like, KPIs, like, saying they're not hitting their KPIs, some sort of... They're not getting a raise or something, and they're taking it out at these—
Iszi:
I'd say that that's not a Lateral question.
SFX:
(group cracks up)
Tom:
But I think Charlotte's right in that taking it out feels right. There is certainly a good mood or a bad mood thing going on here. And while this doesn't have to be Louisiana, if you know any stereotypes about Louisiana and where all those judges may have gone, that would help.
Ólafur:
Is this Mardi Gras?
Tom:
Oh, no, that would be a certain week, as opposed to
Ólafur:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Tom:
seemingly random certain weeks.
Iszi:
Is it like, you know... I've just got the word 'the bayou'. Is it something to do with, like, rainfall patterns? So people get really annoyed when it rains a lot, and if it's a really wet week, they lock people up, and if it's dry, they don't.
Tom:
So, not the weather. But it is something as disconnected as that should be from sentencing.
Iszi:
Traffic? It's America.
Tom:
(chuckles)
Charlotte:
Food? (giggles)
Iszi:
Jazz music?
Ólafur:
The judges are doing something else. Are they going to a horse racing betting thing, or a sports event that's happening?
Iszi:
(gasps)
Ólafur:
And their team is losing, and then they give harsher sentences?
Tom:
Iszi?
Iszi:
That'll be it. I was gonna say, that is definitely it. I don't know. It's the Louisiana Bull Sharks or something, will have lost.
Tom:
the Louisiana State University Tigers, at LSU.
Iszi:
Sorry.
Tom:
Kudges imposed harsher sentences in the days after the LSU team lost.
Ólafur:
That's so mean.
Tom:
And if you have been to Louisiana, the LSU Tigers are a very, very big— Because college football is bizarrely this massive thing in the US, and the effect was strongest among judges who had attended LSU themselves.
Charlotte, we will go to your question, please.
Charlotte:
This question has been sent in by Kacie Minifield.
At certain times of year, K-pop idols will suddenly start counting on their fingers while posing for the camera. If they don't do it, they risk backlash. Why?
And one more time.
At certain times of year, K-pop idols will suddenly start counting on their fingers while posing for the camera. If they don't do it, they risk backlash. Why?
Ólafur:
I know one K-pop thing, which is, I think only going to be for the video audience, but it could be, like, which is the heart.
Tom:
Oh, the— yeah, doing the heart differently to how you would expect it in the UK or the US.
Ólafur:
Yeah, instead of doing the... this, the whole two-handy heart.
Tom:
It's not the two-handed gesture. It is, like, thumb and index finger crossing
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
I think? Yeah.
Ólafur:
And I don't know if it's true, but I learned that you do this because then you can take a selfie while doing a heart, 'cause you can do this one-handed.
Tom:
Ah.
Iszi:
Ah, I see. 'Cause it's like the shape.
Ólafur:
I don't know if that's true. But it feels correct.
Tom:
Oh, that's— Sorry, I've only just realised that the top of those fingers kind of makes a heart shape.
Iszi:
Looks like a—
Tom:
That's how long it's taken.
Charlotte:
Yeah, it's the heart.
Tom:
Right. Okay.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Tom:
I'm in my 40s, okay?! I've only just figured that out!
SFX:
(Iszi and Charlotte laugh)
Ólafur:
No shame in that.
Iszi:
I mean, I... Guys, I don't mean to show off, right? But I go into schools.
Tom:
Oh, yes.
Iszi:
Yeah. And I... And obviously the teachers and stuff, for the kids who are allowed to have their photos taken, the kids sort of line up with me and hold my books, and that sort of thing.
But the amount of times a kid will hold up fingers, and they're like, "We can't have anything weird going on with the hands because we don't know what is a gang signal."
And this is, like, you know, in, like, Burgess Hill. It's not like, you know, in, like, Compton. This is just, like, you know. But any fingers is banned.
Tom:
Sorry, the most cockney pronunciation of "Compton" there has ever been there.
Iszi:
Thank you very much. I mean, you can drive past Compton. It's up on the M40. You go past Compton quite a lot. But I don't think it's the same.
Tom:
Don't think it's the same, no.
Iszi:
Yeah, no. Not the same place.
Ólafur:
Speaking of the younger generation and, I don't know, counting, is 6-7 still a thing? I don't know if it's still a thing.
Iszi:
Yeah. It is.
Ólafur:
Yeah?
Iszi:
I was doing this just the other week.
Charlotte:
6-7 is still a thing.
Tom:
I was gonna say no one's gonna know, but Iszi is going into schools. You know it's still a thing.
Iszi:
Yeah, it's...
Tom:
At time of recording.
Iszi:
It's my favourite thing to do. I'll often get kids to shout out a page that they want me to read from. And when they don't say "6-7", I sort of say, "What, you didn't want sixty-seven? Weird." And then I just do this, and they go insane, and the teachers hate me.
Tom:
(cackles)
SFX:
(guests snickering)
Iszi:
So much fun.
Charlotte:
I wanna go back to what you said, Iszi, about... kind of trying to, to neutralise, like, doing a gang sign.
Iszi:
Mm.
Charlotte:
I would say that that is something along the lines of what we're looking for, but it's not about gang signs.
Iszi:
Okay.
Ólafur:
Are there K-pop territorial rivalries that are...
Iszi:
What, like East 17?
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Iszi:
Like post codes.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
'Cause I know Gangnam is a—
Tom:
Sorry, the difference between postcode gang wars and lovable boy band East 17 is... I feel like there's quite a long distance there.
Iszi:
I'm also in my 40s, Tom. It's fine.
Tom:
Counting down. Okay. So I'm thinking... alongside finger gesture of the heart, it's like putting two fingers up and a V sign and a peace sign. So I wonder if there's some time when that's inappropriate, and they're instead counting four, three, two, one, something like that.
Iszi:
Is it just counting down to a really important concert that their fans are gonna be at, and they just want to show that when the photo's being taken, so they know that it's like, "Oh, it's in four days! Oh, it's in three days!" Or, "It's in two days! It's in one day! Oh, it's the day!" in something like a communication method.
Ólafur:
Isn't it also, like, people count differently? Like, some people start with their little finger
Iszi:
Oh yeah!
Ólafur:
and go that way.
Tom:
Mm.
Ólafur:
And are they then showing, by the way... the order they do it in? So like, "Ah, we are from this neighborhood. That's why we count this way."
Iszi:
But also, just to say, the best finger counting ever is... the Sumerian cuneiform writing peoples one, where it's counting to 12 on one hand using a th— your thumb as things. 'Cause it's one for the first digit, two for the middle digit, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve. And it's so easy to keep count, and then you can use the other hand to keep count of the bigger numbers as well. And if you're ever doing something with one hand, and you need to keep count, it is the easiest thing, and they're geniuses. Particularly sit-ups actually. They're very good for situps.
Tom:
(laughs breathily)
Iszi:
(wheezes)
Charlotte:
Well, out of everything that was said there, Iszi's was the most interesting. But Tom's was actually
Iszi:
Yay!
Charlotte:
(laughs) probably more correct.
SFX:
(Tom and Iszi laugh)
Ólafur:
I love the build up. Like, out of everything, Iszi was the most, eh, interesting. It was Tom, actually. Yeah.
SFX:
(Tom and Charlotte laugh)
Charlotte:
Sadly, Tom was closer. So yes, as you said, like, two... Well, when people put up peace signs... it's more for the gesture, but also, it looks like the number two. So in this case, numbers actually matter more than the gesture.
Iszi:
Oh, so the number is symbolic of a meaning?
Charlotte:
So it's not related to gangs, but it could be some other sort of meaning.
Iszi:
Not gangs or postcodes?
Charlotte:
No.
Iszi:
We've also said postcodes. So, okay, so... are certain numbers linked to actual, like, celebrities there? So like, you know, Juan Pablo Montoya, I don't know. (laughs) But could it be, like, there— another reference to a name? Like how Prince Andrew is now, or the Andrew formerly known as... is now known as number two. That's—
Charlotte:
So I wouldn't consider them celebrities, but...
Iszi:
Okay.
Charlotte:
What might you get... backlash for?
Iszi:
What would you get backlash for? I mean, I mean... you get a lot of backlash just sort of in our cultures for racial stigmatisation or bullying or something like that. So is holding up a certain number seen as somehow ostracising a certain group of people?
Charlotte:
So close. (laughs) It's close but not close, you know?
Ólafur:
There's also, in...
Iszi:
It's interesting.
Ólafur:
In other cultures, different cultures, there are, unlucky numbers and lucky numbers.
Iszi:
Yeah.
Charlotte:
Mm.
Ólafur:
Like, Western is seven, lucky. Maybe in Korea some other number is lucky, unlucky.
Iszi:
13, unlucky.
Ólafur:
Yeah.
Iszi:
Don't have 13 fingers, though, so you're safe.
Charlotte:
I will say, this behaviour only appears during important times of the year.
Iszi:
I just don't understand why they're holding up any fingers.
Tom:
(laughs)
Iszi:
Just put your fingers away.
Ólafur:
I'm thinking—
Charlotte:
They're just trying to be cute. Like, you know, if you did a peace sign, and then it had a—
Iszi:
They're beautiful boys! A lot of them.
Charlotte:
(laughs)
Iszi:
They don't need to hold up anything. They could just go, "Mm, look at my face!" They don't need to be cute.
Tom:
(laughs)
Ólafur:
I'm thinking—
Iszi:
They're already cute!
Ólafur:
I'm thinking it was mentioned that, like, it's celebrities... not celebrities, but it is famous people. If it is, like, politicians, so is it around, like, when it is voting or, vote party number three?
Iszi:
Are the parties actually called numbers? So, like, we've got colours. So if they held up red for Labour, or, you know, blue for— or blue for Democrat or whatever, you're going to, you know, affecting, like, showing your political alignment. And so therefore, you can't hold up four, 'cause that's the fourth person down, and that's the person you should vote for.
Charlotte:
Yes, that is actually exactly it. Both Ólafur and Iszi, like, bang on.
Iszi:
Definitely, yeah.
Charlotte:
Yes. So in South Korea, ballot candidates are assigned numbers. Hand gestures that resemble one or two – such as thumb signs or V-signs – can be interpreted as implicit political endorsements. This becomes especially sensitive during election season, when public figures are expected to remain strictly neutral.
When idols realise they flashed a pose that could be read as a candidate number, they often start counting all their fingers or switch to neutral gestures like clenched fists, and this makes it clear that they weren't deliberately signaling support.
And during those same periods, idols may also avoid wearing certain colours associated with parties.
Ólafur:
Which is why, again, the heart is the best. There's no—
Charlotte:
Yeah, just stick to the heart, guys.
Tom:
One last order of business then.
At the start of the show, we had this question sent in by DooRon. Thank you very much.
What are you doing if you're committing monolithic biaviacide?
Iszi already has her hand up. And I think you might be able to get this one. Wanna take that before I give it to the audience?
Iszi:
Well, I'm afraid, guys: mono-lithic, one stone.
Tom:
Yep.
Iszi:
Biaviacide, two...
Tom:
Yep.
Iszi:
Avia, bird.
Ólafur:
No!
Iszi:
-Cide, killing.
Tom:
Yes!
Iszi:
Killing two birds with one stone.
Tom:
Yes. Absolutely right. Iszi, where can people find you? What's going on in your life? Plug the books.
Iszi:
Indeed, I write books for short people, children mostly, but everybody seems to enjoy them. The Domesday Cows is my latest one for 9-to-12 year olds.
You can find out all about me and my various podcasts, including Talk Like an Egyptian, where we talk about ancient history, and Terrible Lizards, where we talk about dinosaurs, all on iszi.com, I-S-Z-I.com.
Tom:
Charlotte, what's going on with you?
Charlotte:
I blend pageantry and games and PhD life, and you can find me at mikichar on Instagram if you want to keep up with my life.
Tom:
And Ólafur.
Ólafur:
You can find me at @Ólafurw on the internet, wherever. And please yell at me. People find it fun apparently.
Tom:
And if you wanna know more about this show or send in your own idea for a question, or join the Lateral Producer's Club, you can do that at lateralcast.com. We are @lateralcast basically everywhere, and there are full video episodes every week on Spotify.
Thank you very much to Ólafur Waage.
Ólafur:
Bye-bye.
Tom:
Charlotte Yeung.
Charlotte:
Bye-bye.
Tom:
Iszi Lawrence.
Iszi:
Peace out.
Tom:
I've been Tom Scott, and that's been Lateral.
Episode Credits
| HOST | Tom Scott |
| QUESTION PRODUCER | David Bodycombe |
| EDITED BY | Julie Hassett at The Podcast Studios, Dublin |
| MUSIC | Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com) |
| ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS | DooRon, Kacie Minifield, Lydia, Victor, Sam E., Bjørnar |
| FORMAT | Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd |
| EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS | David Bodycombe and Tom Scott |